Ask Our Doctors – Archive
Our Medical Directors are outstanding physicians that you will find to be very personable and compassionate, who take care to ensure that you have the most cutting-edge fertility treatments at your disposal. This is your outlet to ask your questions to the doctors.
Hi Dr Sher
I’m about to undergo my third IVF cycle and am based in the UK.
I’m 38 and my partner is 32. All hormonal and sperm analysis tests came back normal, sperm morphology tested low on one test but OK on the next. My AMH was given as ‘slightly lower than normal for my age’ but I’m unsure of the exact number. I also have had a hysterosalpingogram which was clear.
My first cycle was a private round and was ICSI in June 2018
This was my protocol –
Day 22 to Day 33 of menstrual cycle – Norethisterone tablets
Day 1 of stims – Prostap 3.75mg injection
Day 3 to Day 11 Gonal F 300ml
Day 8 of stims estradiol was measured at 1093pmol/L
Day 12 of stims estradiol was measured at 4360pmol/L
Day 14 of stims estradiol was measured at 7202pmol/L
Ovitrelle trigger 250 on Day 14 of stims
8 eggs were collected, 7 were inseminated, 5 fertilised and 3 were discarded. 2 embryos were transferred 3 days after collection, and a blood test confirmed negative pregnancy test.
I then had an NHS cycle – with Synarel down regulation spray, Bemfola stimulation and crinone gel from egg collection. A cyst was noted on one ovary and a polyp in the uterus. I had 11 eggs collected, a day earlier than originally thought, 6 fertilised, 3 were discarded and 2 were transferred. My period arrived 2 days before official test day.
I will be having a review with the gynaecologist to assess the cyst which was noted at 2mm when last checked
I have read your blogs here and am interested to know what you think of my ovarian stimulation protocol, my clinic have said they will offer most likely the same protocol and dosage and use the same drugs again with my next IVF cycle.
My next IVF cycle will most likely commence early next year and I have a review meeting soon with the clinic. Do you think any changes could be applied to ensure a better outcome? Would you advise on any further testing before my next IVF cycle begins?
K
I would urge you to double the trigger dosage of Ovidrel. This might enhance egg competency.
Geoff Sher
I’m 36 with DOR (AFC: L 3, R 5). did two mini-IVF cycles with clomid + 75 GonalF/day, lupron trigger. Each time 1 of the only 2-3 eggs retrieved degenerated upon retrieval. What do you think is the reason?
Mini-IVF is a procedure that involves ovarian stimulation using low dosage medications (often oral drugs like clomiphene and letrozole) under the premise that it is a “safer” and less expensive than conventional gonadotropin stimulation regimes while yielding comparable success. …….. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact is that success rates per fresh mini-IVF cycle ranges between 10% and 12%s (i.e., about one third of that which reported national average for conventional IVF performed on women under 39y of age) ). And when it comes to older women and those with diminished ovarian reserve (DOR), the success rate with mini-IVF is usually much lower still.
There can be little doubt that aside from a woman’s age, the method used for ovarian stimulation represents the most important determinant of egg/embryo quality and thus of IVF outcome. There is no single stimulation protocol that is suitable for all IVF patients. It must be individualized…. especially when it comes to women who, regardless of their age have diminished ovarian reserve (DOR) and for women over >40y of age. The reason for this is that in such cases, the pituitary gland often over-produces LH which in turn causes the ovarian stroma/theca (connective tissue) to thicken (stromal hyperplasia/hyperthecosis) and over-produce male hormones (mainly testosterone). This in turn adversely influences egg and follicle growth, resulting in poor egg/embryo “competency” and compromised IVF outcome.
So let us examine the validity of the claims made in support of mini-IVF:
1.Milder stimulation using oral agents such as clomiphene, letrozole (alone or in combination with low dosage gonadotropins (Follistim/Gonal-F/Puregon/Menopur) reduces stress on the ovaries and overall risk associated with IVF. This argument while perhaps having some merit when applied to mini-IVF conducted in younger women who also have normal ovarian reserve, does not hold water for older women and those with DOR who (s stated above) often already have excessive LH-induced ovarian testosterone production. Furthermore, addition of clomiphene and letrozole by further increasing pituitary LH (and thus ovarian testosterone) only serves to add “fuel to the fire” in such cases and Menopur which contains both LH and hCG ( that both have similar effects on ovarian testosterone production), if administered in large amounts (>75U per day) can also do harm in my opinion.
2.Women with DOR will respond better to “milder stimulation” and egg quality will so be enhanced. This assertion borders on the ridiculous. It is like saying that applying less force to a heavier object will increase the likelihood of moving it”. That is simply not how FSH stimulates follicle development. You see…the cell membranes that envelop the follicular granulosa cells that line the inside surface of ovarian follicles have on their surfaces, a finite number of FSH receptors. FSH molecules attach to these receptors and mediate intracellular events that lead to granulosa cell proliferation with production of estradiol and the concurrent development of the egg (oogenesis) that is attached to the inner wall of the follicle. Once all the FSH receptors on the cell membranes are saturated, any residual FSH is discarded. This is why, when it comes to older women and women with DOR whose granulose cell membranes harbor fewer FSH receptors, it is virtually impossible to overstimulate them. Excessive FSH will simply be rejected and discarded.
3. Use of fewer drugs translates into lower cost. This would be true, were it not for the fact that success rates with mini-IVF across the board are much lower than with conventional ovarian stimulation. More important is the fact that the cost of IVF should be expressed in terms of “the cost of having a baby” rather than “cost per cycle of treatment”. When this is taken into account the cost associated with mini-IVF will b be significantly higher than conventional IVF. Then there is the additional emotional cost associated with a much higher IVF failure rate with mini-IVF.
4.Mini-IVF is less technology driven, less stressful and easier to execute. This assertion is in my opinion also without merit. Aside from reduced cost of medications, the same monitoring and laboratory procedures are needed for mini-IVF as with conventional treatment.
What is the best approach? When it comes to older women and those with DOR, it is in my opinion preferable to use a long pituitary down-regulation protocol with conversion from an I.M agonist (e.g. Lupron or Buserelin) to an antagonist such as Cetrotide/Orgalutron or Ganirelix (the agonist/antagonist conversion protocol) augmented with human growth hormone (HGH) and/or estrogen priming and combing this “embryo banking” over several cycles. In such cases preimplantation genetic screening (PGS) can be incorporated to help select the most “competent” embryos for transfer.
What about younger women with normal or increased ovarian reserve? If mini-IVF has any role at all, it could be in young women who have normal or increased ovarian reserve. I do not o not advocate aggressively stimulating the ovaries of younger women who have normal or increased ovarian reserve (as assessed by basal FSH, AMH and estradiol) simply to try and access more eggs. In fact, such an approach is neither safe nor acceptable. In such women it is often wiser to use lower dosage stimulation to try and prevent the development of severe ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome (OHSS) which aside from putting the woman at severe risk of (sometimes) life-endangering complications, can also compromise egg/embryo quality. However, it is my fervent belief that in such women, the preferred approach to ovarian stimulation is through the use of low dosage FSHr-dominant gonadotropins (rather than oral agents such as clomiphene or letrozole and/or high dosage Menopur). This approach is referred to as Micro-IVF.
I think we should talk. Please call Tina at 900-780-7437 and set up a Skype consultation with me.
Geoff Sher
I am doing my second round of IVF and we had a 5 day blastocyst transferred 19/11. We had our 1st beta test on 28/11 and it measured 25, 2nd 30/11 measured 52 then 3rd 3/12 measured 197. I’d like to know if there is any possibility that we could continue on the a viable pregnancy. My clinic want me to go back tomorrow 5/12 for a 4th test but aren’t saying anything other than it was a low start and we will need to see how bloods go.
It could still be fine. Do the requested additional beta and then an US in abut 10 days from now.
Good luck!
Geoff Sher
Dear Dr. Sher,
Thank you for your blog. You have helped so many people including myself!
Doctors often become concerned about a CRL that measures behind, but are there equal concerns about a CRL that measures increasingly ahead? How far ahead of gestational age might indicate something is wrong (Macrocephaly, hydrops, trisomy, abnormal growth, etc)?
My previous FET PGS-normal embryo was discovered to have hydrops fetalis at 20 weeks and passed away a week later. There were no warning signs except the gestational sac measured a week behind throughout the first trimester. The doctors did genetic testing of my amniotic fluid and TORCH titers but never found the cause of hydrops.
I am now 10 weeks along with my second FET PGS-normal embryo and I am worried that the CRL measuring increasingly ahead could be a bad sign. Please let me know your experience with this.
Thank you!
In my opinion, it is highly unlikely that this suggests a pending recurrence of hydrops fetalis.
Good luck and please update me down the line.
Geoff Sher
43years old next week. 1ivf 2frozen embrio Transfer 1chemical pregnancy 1 missabortion (heart beat stoped 6 1/2) 1 spontane pregnancy (heart stoped 81/2) i still have 4 frozen embryo 4ab,3bb,5bc,5bc
i think to have fourth OPU and sent embryos to genetic test. Should i prefer acgh or ngs.. fsh lh estradiol etc all ok.. i guess my issue is chromosomal problem. and the reason of unsuccesfull result of 2treatment i think is my high tsh. now it is under control
another question. what should i do my former embryos.? should i thaw and freez 2times or just to have another transfer
I recommend NGS.
On the issue of a raised TSH. It is not the TSH level that really matters. It is the cause of the elevation that matters. If this is associated with antithyroid antibodies-ATA (regardless of preset TSH level) there is a 50% chance of you having activated natural killer cells (NKa) with an immunologic implantation dysfunction (IID). This should be looked into.
Here is a look see at what to consider when IVF fails:
Whenever a patient fails to achieve a viable pregnancy following embryo transfer (ET), the first question asked is why! Was it simply due to, bad luck?, How likely is the failure to recur in future attempts and what can be done differently, to avoid it happening next time?.
It is an indisputable fact that any IVF procedure is at least as likely to fail as it is to succeed. Thus when it comes to outcome, luck is an undeniable factor. Notwithstanding, it is incumbent upon the treating physician to carefully consider and address the causes of IVF failure before proceeding to another attempt:
1.Age: The chance of a woman under 35Y of age having a baby per embryo transfer is about 35-40%. From there it declines progressively to under 5% by the time she reaches her mid-forties. This is largely due to declining chromosomal integrity of the eggs with advancing age…”a wear and tear effect” on eggs that are in the ovaries from birth.
2.Embryo Quality/”competency (capable of propagating a viable pregnancy)”. As stated, the woman’s age plays a big role in determining egg/embryo quality/”competency”. This having been said, aside from age the protocol used for controlled ovarian stimulation (COS) is the next most important factor. It is especially important when it comes to older women, and women with diminished ovarian reserve (DOR) where it becomes essential to be aggressive, and to customize and individualize the ovarian stimulation protocol.
We used to believe that the uterine environment is more beneficial to embryo development than is the incubator/petri dish and that accordingly, the earlier on in development that embryos are transferred to the uterus, the better. To achieve this goal, we used to select embryos for transfer based upon their day two or microscopic appearance (“grade”). But we have since learned that the further an embryo has advanced in its development, the more likely it is to be “competent” and that embryos failing to reach the expanded blastocyst stage within 5-6 days of being fertilized are almost invariably “incompetent” and are unworthy of being transferred. Moreover, the introduction into clinical practice about a decade ago, (by Levent Keskintepe PhD and myself) of Preimplantation Genetic Sampling (PGS), which assesses for the presence of all the embryos chromosomes (complete chromosomal karyotyping), provides another tool by which to select the most “competent” embryos for transfer. This methodology has selective benefit when it comes to older women, women with DOR, cases of unexplained repeated IVF failure and women who experience recurrent pregnancy loss (RPL).
3.The number of the embryos transferred: Most patients believe that the more embryos transferred the greater the chance of success. To some extent this might be true, but if the problem lies with the use of a suboptimal COS protocol, transferring more embryos at a time won’t improve the chance of success. Nor will the transfer of a greater number of embryos solve an underlying embryo implantation dysfunction (anatomical molecular or immunologic).Moreover, the transfer of multiple embryos, should they implant, can and all too often does result in triplets or greater (high order multiples) which increases the incidence of maternal pregnancy-induced complications and of premature delivery with its serious risks to the newborn. It is for this reason that I rarely recommend the transfer of more than 2 embryos at a time and am moving in the direction of advising single embryo transfers …especially when it comes to transferring embryos derived through the fertilization of eggs from young women.
4.Implantation Dysfunction (ID): Implantation dysfunction is a very common (often overlooked) cause of “unexplained” IVF failure. This is especially the case in young ovulating women who have normal ovarian reserve and have fertile partners. Failure to identify, typify, and address such issues is, in my opinion, an unfortunate and relatively common cause of repeated IVF failure in such women. Common sense dictates that if ultrasound guided embryo transfer is performed competently and yet repeated IVF attempts fail to propagate a viable pregnancy, implantation dysfunction must be seriously considered. Yet ID is probably the most overlooked factor. The most common causes of implantation dysfunction are:
a.A“ thin uterine lining”
b.A uterus with surface lesions in the cavity (polyps, fibroids, scar tissue)
c.Immunologic implantation dysfunction (IID)
d.Endocrine/molecular endometrial receptivity issues
Certain causes of infertility are repetitive and thus cannot readily be reversed. Examples include advanced age of the woman; severe male infertility; immunologic infertility associated with alloimmune implantation dysfunction (especially if it is a “complete DQ alpha genetic match between partners plus uterine natural killer cell activation (NKa).
I strongly recommend that you visit http://www.DrGeoffreySherIVF.com. Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.
•The IVF Journey: The importance of “Planning the Trip” Before Taking the Ride”
•Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
•IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS)
•The Fundamental Requirements for Achieving Optimal IVF Success
•Use of GnRH Antagonists (Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron) in IVF-Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
•Ovarian Stimulation in Women Who have Diminished Ovarian Reserve (DOR): Introducing the Agonist/Antagonist Conversion protocol
•Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
•Human Growth Hormone Administration in IVF: Does it Enhances Egg/Embryo Quality and Outcome?
•The BCP: Does Launching a Cycle of Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS). Coming off the BCP Compromise Response?
•Blastocyst Embryo Transfers should be the Standard of Care in IVF
•IVF: How Many Attempts should be considered before Stopping?
•“Unexplained” Infertility: Often a matter of the Diagnosis Being Overlooked!
•IVF Failure and Implantation Dysfunction:
•The Role of Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID): PART 1-Background
•Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID): PART 2- Making a Diagnosis
•Immunologic Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID): PART 3-Treatment
•Thyroid autoantibodies and Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID)
•Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction: Importance of Meticulous Evaluation and Strategic Management 🙁 Case Report)
•Intralipid and IVIG therapy: Understanding the Basis for its use in the Treatment of Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID)
•Intralipid (IL) Administration in IVF: It’s Composition; how it Works; Administration; Side-effects; Reactions and Precautions
•Natural Killer Cell Activation (NKa) and Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction in IVF: The Controversy!
•Endometrial Thickness, Uterine Pathology and Immunologic Factors
•Vaginally Administered Viagra is Often a Highly Effective Treatment to Help Thicken a Thin Uterine Lining
•Treating Out-of-State and Out-of-Country Patients at Sher-IVF in Las Vegas:
•A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF
•How Many Embryos should be transferred: A Critical Decision in IVF?
•The Role of Nutritional Supplements in Preparing for IVF
If you are interested in my advice or medical services, I urge you to contact my patient concierge, ASAP to set up a Skype or an in-person consultation with me. You can also set this up by emailing concierge@sherivf.com or by calling 702-533-2691 and/or 800-780-743. You can also enroll for a consultation with me, online at http://www.SherIVF.com.
Also, my book, “In Vitro Fertilization, the ART of Making Babies” is available as a down-load through http://www.Amazon.com .
Geoffrey Sher MD