Ask Our Doctors – Archive
Our Medical Directors are outstanding physicians that you will find to be very personable and compassionate, who take care to ensure that you have the most cutting-edge fertility treatments at your disposal. This is your outlet to ask your questions to the doctors.
Hello,
I am a 32 with a PCOS diagnosis. I have gone through two rounds of IVF with two different clinics with the following protocols and results.
IVF #1 (July-August 2016): 150 follistim in AM and 100 in PM (coasting used as my e2 levels rose); lupron, HCG trigger
34 eggs retrieved
12 mature
9 fertilized with ICSI
7 made it to day 3 where they were biopsied for PGS testing
4 made it to day 5 but the day 3 PGS testing came back as all abnormal
I developed severe OHSS after this cycle.
IVF#2 (December 2016): 125 follistim and 75 menopur in evening; ganirelix
Lupron trigger
34 eggs retrieved
28 mature
25 fertilized with ICSI
4 average and 4 good quality on day 3
0 on day 5
2 average blasts on day 6 (biopsied for PGS testing)
My question is, why did we have so few embryos in our second round when we had such a great number to start out with? I know I was overstimulated in both rounds (not nearly as much in the second round). Could that be an issue? Could it be the lupron trigger? My husband’s numbers are great with the exception of morphology.
We have not received our PGS results yet but are worried we will have the same issue as we did before with the abnormal results.
Thank you in advance for your help!
Best,
Ally
I am opposed to the Lupron trigger (see below). However, the protocol used for ovarian stimulation is probably the most important consideration of all.
Ideal egg development sets the scene for optimal egg maturation that occurs 36-42h prior to ovulation or egg retrieval. Without prior optimal egg development (ovogenesis), egg maturation will be dysfunctional and most eggs will be rendered “incompetent” and unable upon fertilization to propagate viable embryos. In IVF, optimal ovogenesis requires the selection and implementation of an individualized approach to controlled ovaria stimulation (COS). Thereupon, at the ideal time, maturational division of the egg’s chromosomes (i.e. meiosis) is “triggered” through the administration of hCG or an agonist such as Lupron, which induces an LH surge. The, dosage and timing of the “trigger shot” profoundly affects the efficiency of meiosis, the potential to yield “competent (euploid) mature (M2) eggs, and as such represents a rate limiting step in the IVF process .
“Triggering meiosis with Urine-derived hCG (Pregnyl/Profasi/Novarel) versus recombinant hCG (Ovidrel): Until quite recently, the standard method used to “trigger” egg maturation was through the administration of 10,000 units of hCGu. Subsequently,, a DNA recombinant form of hCGr (Ovidrel)was introduced and marketed in 250 mcg doses. But clinical experience strongly suggests that 250 mcg of Ovidrel is most likely not equivalent in biological potency to 10,000 units of hCG. It probably only has 50%-70%of the potency of a 10,000U dose of hCGu and as such might not be sufficient to fully promote meiosis, especially in cases where the woman has numerous follicles. For this reason, I firmly believe that when hCGr is selected as the “trigger shot” the dosage should best be doubled to 500 mcg at which dosage it will probably have an equivalent effect on promoting meiosis as would 10,000 units of hCGu. Failure to “trigger” with 10,000U hCGu or 500mcg hCGr, will in my opinion increase the likelihood of disorderly meiosis, “incompetent (aneuploid) eggs” and the risk of follicles not yielding eggs at egg retrieval (“empty follicles”). Having said this, it is my personal opinion that it is unnecessary to supplant hCGu with hCGr since the latter is considerably more expensive and is probably no more biopotent than the latter.
Some clinicians, when faced with a risk of OHSS developing will deliberately elect to reduce the dosage of hCG administered as a trigger in the hope that by doing so the risk of critical OHSS developing will be lowered. It is my opinion, that such an approach is not optimal because a low dose of hCG (e.g., 5000 units, hCGu or 25omcg hCGr) is likely inadequate to optimize the efficiency of meiosis particularly when it comes to cases such as this where there are numerous follicles. It has been suggested that the preferential use of an “agonist (Lupron) trigger” in women at risk of developing severe ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome could potentially reduce the risk of the condition becoming critical and thereby placing the woman at risk of developing life-endangering complications. It is with this in mind that many RE’s prefer to trigger meiosis by way of an “agonist (Lupron) trigger rather than through the use of hCG. The agonist promptly causes the woman’s pituitary gland to expunge a large amount of LH over a short period of time and it is this LH “surge” that triggers meiosis. The problem with using this approach, in my opinion, is that it is hard to predict how much LH will be released in by the pituitary gland. For this reason, I personally prefer to use hCGu for the trigger, even in cases of ovarian hyperstimulation hyperstimulated, with one important proviso…that being that is she underwent “prolonged coasting” in order to reduce the risk of critical OHSS, prior to the 10,000 unit hCGu “ trigger”.
The timing of the “trigger shot “to initiate meiosis: This should coincide with the majority of ovarian follicles being >15 mm in mean diameter with several follicles having reached 18-22 mm. Follicles of larger than 22 mm will usually harbor overdeveloped eggs which in turn will usually fail to produce good quality eggs. Conversely, follicles less than 15 mm will usually harbor underdeveloped eggs that are more likely to be aneuploid and incompetent following the “trigger”.
I strongly recommend that you visit http://www.DrGeoffreySherIVF.com. Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.
•The IVF Journey: The importance of “Planning the Trip” Before Taking the Ride”
•Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
•IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation(COS)
•The Fundamental Requirements For Achieving Optimal IVF Success
•Ovarian Stimulation for IVF using GnRH Antagonists: Comparing the Agonist/Antagonist Conversion Protocol.(A/ACP) With the “Conventional” Antagonist Approach
•Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
•The “Biological Clock” and how it should Influence the Selection and Design of Ovarian Stimulation Protocols for IVF.
•Staggered IVF: An Excellent Option When. Advancing Age and Diminished Ovarian Reserve (DOR) Reduces IVF Success Rate
•Embryo Banking/Stockpiling: Slows the “Biological Clock” and offers a Selective Alternative to IVF-Egg Donation
•Preimplantation Genetic Testing (PGS) in IVF: It should be Used Selectively and NOT be Routine.
•IVF: Selecting the Best Quality Embryos to Transfer
•Preimplantation Genetic Sampling (PGS) Using: Next Generation Gene Sequencing (NGS): Method of Choice.
•PGS in IVF: Are Some Chromosomally abnormal Embryos Capable of Resulting in Normal Babies and Being Wrongly Discarded?
•PGS and Assessment of Egg/Embryo “competency”: How Method, Timing and Methodology Could Affect Reliability
•IVF: The first Choice for Infertile Women 40 to 43 Years of Age
•Preventing Severe Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome (OHSS) with “Prolonged Coasting”
•Understanding Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS) and the Need to Customize Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
•“Triggering” Egg Maturation in IVF: Comparing urine-derived hCG, Recombinant DNA-hCG and GnRH-agonist:
•The “Lupron Trigger” to Prevent Severe OHSS: What are the Pro’s and Con’s?
Please call or email Julie Dahan, my patient concierge. She will guide you on how to set up an in-person or Skype consultation with me. You can reach Julie at on her cell phone or via email at any time:
Julie Dahan
•Email: Julied@sherivf.com
•Phone: 702-533-2691
?800-780-7437
Geoff Sher
I also suggest that you access the 4th edition of my book ,”In Vitro Fertilization, the ART of Making Babies”. It is available as a down-load through http://www.Amazon.com or from most bookstores and public libraries.
Hello Dr. Sher,
I have few questions, and hoping you can help me. I am 42 yo, otherwise healthy. Through out 2016, I have had three retrivals resulting in 5 normal pgs embryos. Transfer in June lining week before transfer was 6.8, failed due to multiple fibroids, had surgery in August with removal of 12 fibroids, largest measured size of grapefruit I was told. Uterine cavity was not entered during surgery. Had another reterival done end of October w one normal pgs embryo lining at the time was 11.9. FET was planned for December 18th, estradiol patches every third day, estradiol pills 2mg Thor times daily. My US done on 12/13 lining measured at approx. 5.8, transfer pushed back and I added estradiol vaginal three times daily. Went back 12/15 lining now was about 5mm. Transfer now cancelled for this month. First question why so thin lining, I have never had any problems in the past, I was shocked my lining became thinner on more aggressive estrogen regiment. Can this be due to surgery? At this point my RE wants to continue same estrogen pills and patches follow up in one week w another US, what would make estrogen work now? Seems like it has not so far. What is your opinion about using other Meds such as viagra, etc. how do they effect implantation or embryo? The current plan is to have lining built then go on bcp and starting the cycle again. I greatly appreciate your time and opinion.
Thank you very much.
Indeed, the removal of so many fibroids (even if the cavity was not entered), can compromise blood flow to the endometrium, and lead to an insufficient lining.
Fibroids or leiomyomas are non-malignant muscle tumors that grow in the uterine wall. They can be found in about one out of every five (1:5) women >30Y of age. Fibroids are far more prevalent in African Americans and women and less frequent in other ethnic groups (i.e. Caucasians and Asians).
Fibroids, enlarge and/or distort uterine configuration. They can produce symptoms such as heavy, painful and prolonged menstrual periods. Other symptoms include pain with intercourse, backache, severe abdominal pain when large fibroids run out of blood supply or when superficial fibroids on a stem (pedunculated) undergo twisting (torsion). Sometimes fibroids will protrude into the uterine cavity, cause severe cramping and bleeding and so irritate the uterine lining as to compromise embryo attachment (anatomical implantation dysfunction). Women with fibroids are also at greater risk of miscarriage, premature delivery, malposition of the baby (mandating cesarean delivery) and an increased risk of bleeding after birth (post-partum hemorrhage)
Diagnosis can be made by one or more of the following symptoms/presentations: Symptomatology, pelvic examination pelvic ultrasound, hysterosalpingogram (HSG), sonohysterogram (HSN), CT-scan or MRI..
Fibroids are classified as:
•Submucosal: Here the fibroid grows just under the lining of the uterine cavity (mucosa) or protrudes into the uterine cavity. They might mold into the underlying uterine muscle (sessile) or be on a stalk (pedunculated). Submucosal fibroids can change the shape of the uterine cavity, irritate the lining and prevent implantation, cause miscarriage. These lesions must be removed in their entirety prior to undertaking embryo transfer, usually hysteroscopically. (see below)
•Subserosal: – Here the tumors grow under the outer layer (serosa) of the uterus. These fibroids will not compromise implantation, but if they are large, causing severe pain, and especially if they are multiple, pedunculated and thus at risk of undergoing torsion (twisting) the3y should be removed, usually laparoscopically. (See below).
•Intramural: – when the fibroids develop within the muscular wall of the uterus. This is the commonest presentation. Unless they are large and multiple and do not encroach on the uterine cavity, they can be left alone Surgical removal is usually by laparoscopy or laparotomy/abdominal open incision (See below)
The uterus is composed of a thick layer of smooth muscle (myometrium) surrounding the endometrial lining into which the embryo implants and which serves to protect and nourish a growing pregnancy. These tumors are rarely malignant (see below). Fibroid tumors, even large ones, can occur without producing any symptoms at all.
For the most part, only those fibroids that impinge upon the uterine (endometrial) cavity (submucosal) affect fertility. Exceptions include large fibroids in the muscle wall of the uterus (intramural) that can block the openings of the fallopian tubes as they enter the uterus, and where multiple fibroids cause abnormal uterine contraction patterns.
In some cases multiple uterine fibroids may so deprive the uterine lining (endometrium) of blood flow, that the delivery of estrogen to the endometrium is curtailed to the point that the lining cannot thicken sufficient to support a pregnancy. This can result in early 1st trimester (prior to the 13th week of pregnancy) miscarriages. Large or multiple fibroids, by curtailing the ability of the uterus to stretch in order to accommodate the spatial needs of a rapidly growing pregnancy, may precipitate 2nd trimester (beyond the 13th week) miscarriages and/or trigger the onset of premature labor.
Sizable fibroid tumors are usually easily identified by simple vaginal examination. However, even the smallest fibroid can be identified by transvaginal ultrasound. Sometimes it is difficult to tell if the fibroid is impinging on the uterine cavity. In such cases, a hysteroscopy (where a telescope like instrument, inserted via the vagina into the uterine cavity) or a sonohysterogram where injected fluid, distends the uterine cavity allowing for examination of its inner configuration can help distinguish between intramural and submucosal fibroids. CT scan and MRI can also be used to distinguish between fibroid tumors and another condition that also involves affects the uterine muscular wall, known as adenomyosis. This condition is characterized by endometrial tissue growing deeply into the uterine wall.. Given the often-diffuse nature of adenomyosis, it can be very difficult to remove surgically. This contrasts with fibroid tumors, which are well defined and are usually easily removed.
Surgical Treatment: The mainstay for the treatment of fibroid tumors is surgical removal (myomectomy). Small, asymptomatic fibroids that do not impinge upon the endometrial cavity will usually not require treatment other than observation and vigilance. Large fibroids and submucosal fibroids should be removed prior to starting fertility treatments such as In Vitro Fertilization (IVF) in order to decrease the chance of implantation failure, miscarriage, pregnancy complications and premature labor. Intramural and subserosal fibroids are readily removable by laparoscopic resection or via an abdominal incision. The former allows for a more rapid convalescence and is ideal for the removal of small and accessible superficial fibroid tumors, while the latter approach is preferred for treating larger and less accessible fibroids.
Myomectomy can affect fertility in several ways. If the endometrial cavity is entered during the surgery, there is a possibility of post adhesions forming within the uterine cavity. This should always be checked by the performance of a hysteroscopy or through a sonohysterogram, prior to beginning fertility treatment. Because myomectomy can be bloody, there is a high likelihood of post-operative abdominal adhesion formation, which could bind down or encase the ovaries, preventing the release of the eggs, or block the ends of the fallopian tubes. For this reason, it is important that myomectomies be formed only by accomplished surgeons, who are familiar with techniques to limit blood loss and prevent adhesion formation.
Regardless of whether the laparoscopic or abdominal approach is employed, adequate closure of the uterine wall is essential in order to reduce the subsequent risk of uterine rupture during pregnancy or labor. This is one of the main arguments used against the use of laparoscopic removal of large, multiple or remotely situated fibroids. While laparoscopic myomectomy requires but a few days (at most) for post-operative convalescence, abdominal myomectomy usually requires 6-8 weeks of recovery time. When myomectomy necessitates or results in the uterine cavity being entered (purposefully or inadvertently), it should always be followed up with a “2nd look” hysteroscopy to rule out scar tissue formation, which occurs frequently in the presence of submucosal fibroids.
Uterine polyps (and in some cases, also submucosal fibroids), can usually be removed hysteroscopically (through the vagina). This eliminates the need for abdominal surgery and greatly reduces the recovery time. Hysteroscopic surgery is only useful if the majority of the fibroid protrudes into the endometrial cavity, ensuring that the tumor defect will not be too large. This surgery is often done under laparoscopic guidance, to reduce the risk of uterine perforation. After hysteroscopic surgery it is often advisable to prescribe cyclical hormonal therapy for a few months to encourage regeneration of the endometrial lining over the area of tumor defect and healing of the uterine muscle. A 2nd look hysteroscopy should be performed a few months later in all cases, to rule out scar tissue formation even if it means delaying or deferring the initiation of definitive fertility treatment.
Medical Treatment: The growth of fibroid tumors is estrogen-dependent. Thus when a woman enters menopause and stops making female hormones, fibroids tend to shrink in size on their own. Conditions that mimic menopause can also reduce the size of fibroid tumors. The most common of theses treatment is with a medication such as leuprolide acetate (Lupron), which shuts off the communication of the brain with the ovaries, preventing hormone production. However, this type of medication can only be taken for a limited period (usually 6 months) and once the medication is stopped the fibroids will usually regain their original size within a few months. The medication is therefore only a “temporary fix,” used mostly to decrease the size of large fibroids in order to make their ultimate surgical removal easier, or to help a woman bridge the gap until spontaneous menopause sets in. For the majority of women there is no major benefit from Lupron therapy prior to surgery.
Embolization of Fibroid Tumors: Myomectomy always carries the small (although infrequent) risk that severe, uncontrollable intra-operative bleeding could require the performance of a hysterectomy (complete removal of the uterus) as a life saving measure. Moreover, some women are poor candidates for surgery. This is where a new procedure known as embolization comes in. Embolization is a procedure in which small particles are injected into the arteries of the uterus under radiological guidance to shut off the blood supply to the fibroids, in the hope that they will “shrink” and perhaps, even disappear.
I strongly recommend that you visit http://www.DrGeoffreySherIVF.com. Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.
•Why did my IVF Fail
•IVF Failure and Implantation Dysfunction:
•Endometrial Thickness, Uterine Pathology and Immunologic Factors
•Vaginally Administered Viagra is Often a Highly Effective Treatment to Help Thicken a Thin Uterine Lining
•Treating Out-of-State and Out-of-Country Patients at Sher-IVF in Las Vegas:
•A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF
•How Many Embryos should be transferred: A Critical Decision in IVF.
•The Role of Nutritional Supplements in Preparing for IVF
Please call or email Julie Dahan, my patient concierge. She will guide you on how to set up an in-person or Skype consultation with me. You can reach Julie at on her cell phone or via email at any time:
Julie Dahan
•Email: Julied@sherivf.com
•Phone: 702-533-2691
?800-780-7437
Geoff Sher
I just had a FET performed 11 days ago. My husband and I went through IVF 2 years ago due to a recessive genetic disease we both carry, which caused us to have to end my first pregnancy at 24 1/2 weeks. We have no fertility issues. In addition to PGD for our genetic disease, we opted for PGS as well to screen all chromosomes.
So 11 days ago, My lining was 0.8cm (and triple thick), there was a dominant follicle of at least 1.9cm and yet 2 days ago my pregnancy blood test came back negative. I was wondering if the timing of Ovidrel could have been off (I was not seen on the day they told me to take it at 10pm since the day before that, my LH was really close to surging and my lining and follicle looked good, as I noted above)… is it possible to have a false negative pregnancy blood test? I am also wondering, if I am indeed NOT pregnant, how that could have happened when everything was in order and we knew the embryo was good quality and healthy. I am so disappointed and shocked.
Hi Candice! This could simply have been bad luck, but I can tell you that in my opinion if you trigger with Ovidrel, the dosage shoould be 500mg (two amps) rather than one!.
Geoff Sher
Dear Dr. Sher,
In my desperation to get pregnant I posted a question on the old blog three years ago which you very kindly answered with useful information. Unfortunately, I used my first and last names without thinking, but now the question along with lots of personal information comes up when you google my name. Is there any way you or your web team can delete my last name from the post? I know it is completely my fault but thought you might help out of the goodness of your heart. Please let me know what I can do. I can provide the link to the post, etc. Thank you for your consideration.
I am afraid no longer have access to managing the old blog!
Sorry!
Geoff Sher
Hi Dr Sher, a follow up question on PGS. You mentioned that an embryo can autocorrect if there are normal cells (mosaic). However at day 5 PGS only removes 3-6 cells for testing so how would it be possible to determine accurately if an embryo is mosaic if so few cells are analysed. Is it possible that embryos deemed to be aneuploid are in fact mosaic?
In my opinion…no, not reliably!
Geoff Sher