Ask Our Doctors – Archive
Our Medical Directors are outstanding physicians that you will find to be very personable and compassionate, who take care to ensure that you have the most cutting-edge fertility treatments at your disposal. This is your outlet to ask your questions to the doctors.
Hello Dr. Sher,
I am writing to you in regards to our recent IVF cycle which went horribly wrong.
the diagnosis: male factor infertility (extremely poor morphology, results ranging from <1% to 3%. Count is usually over 100 million with 70% motility. Male age: 39)
My tests all came back normal. AMH of 3.5. I am 33 years old, and we have been trying for over three years with no effect whatsoever.
the protocol:
1. birth control (tri-cyclen lo) from Feb 10-22
2. Suprefact 0.2ml from Feb 17-26
3. Baseline scan indicated a follicle was growing, so suprefact was increased from 0.2ml to 1.0ml from Feb 27-Mar 2 to try to suppress it.
4. Second baseline scan showed two follicles, one at 24mm and one at 16mm, so I was given an HCG trigger shot on Mar 3 to induce ovulation.
5. Suprefact continued at 0.2ml from Mar 3-Mar 21 at which time another scan and blood test showed I was suppressed. Estrogen ~120 pmol/L
6. Menopur 150 units from Mar 22-29 (8 days).
7. A day six scan showed 13-14 follicles growing nicely. Estrogen ~7000 pmol/L
8. An eight day scan showed 13 follicles ranging in size from 10-20mm. I was told they expected to retrieve around 9 eggs. Estrogen ~13500 pmol/L
9. I triggered with HCG on Mar 30 at 10:00PM
10. Egg retrieval took place the morning of April 1, which was an appropriate date, since the whole thing was a joke.
the results:
Two eggs were retrieved, of which only one fertilized. The other one was an "empty shell." We are now awaiting a 3 day transfer, but I am not holding out much hope. I was told two of my follicles were unreachable because my uterus was in the way (even though I had been told previously my ovaries were in a great position for retrieval). All other follicles were "empty." They said many follicles were still too small, but if I had used stimulation drugs for longer they risked losing the first eggs. When I questioned the doctor about what had gone wrong, he said something along the lines of "These things happen."
commentary:
I am extremely frustrated with these results since I was told I was a good responder and expected our only problem to be with the morphology. I have read some of your articles, and thought you might have some insight into why this cycle went so poorly and what we can do differently in the future if we ever have the money to try again. Thank-you in advance for reading, and for your response.
I would like to add that the suprefact was continued at 0.2ml during the 8 days on Menopur.
I suspect that there could be a significant issue with the protocol used for ovarian stimulation, which in my opinion needs to be carefully reviewed and possibly drastically revised.
Whenever a patient fails to achieve a viable pregnancy following embryo transfer (ET), the first question asked is why! Was it simply due to, bad luck?, How likely is the failure to recur in future attempts and what can be done differently, to avoid it happening next time?.
It is an indisputable fact that any IVF procedure is at least as likely to fail as it is to succeed. Thus when it comes to outcome, luck is an undeniable factor. Notwithstanding, it is incumbent upon the treating physician to carefully consider and address the causes of IVF failure before proceeding to another attempt:
1.Age: The chance of a woman under 35Y of age having a baby per embryo transfer is about 35-40%. From there it declines progressively to under 5% by the time she reaches her mid-forties. This is largely due to declining chromosomal integrity of the eggs with advancing age…”a wear and tear effect” on eggs that are in the ovaries from birth.
2.Embryo Quality/”competency (capable of propagating a viable pregnancy)”. As stated, the woman’s age plays a big role in determining egg/embryo quality/”competency”. This having been said, aside from age the protocol used for controlled ovarian stimulation (COS) is the next most important factor. It is especially important when it comes to older women, and women with diminished ovarian reserve (DOR) where it becomes essential to be aggressive, and to customize and individualize the ovarian stimulation protocol.
We used to believe that the uterine environment is more beneficial to embryo development than is the incubator/petri dish and that accordingly, the earlier on in development that embryos are transferred to the uterus, the better. To achieve this goal, we used to select embryos for transfer based upon their day two or microscopic appearance (“grade”). But we have since learned that the further an embryo has advanced in its development, the more likely it is to be “competent” and that embryos failing to reach the expanded blastocyst stage within 5-6 days of being fertilized are almost invariably “incompetent” and are unworthy of being transferred. Moreover, the introduction into clinical practice about a decade ago, (by Levent Keskintepe PhD and myself) of Preimplantation Genetic Sampling (PGS), which assesses for the presence of all the embryos chromosomes (complete chromosomal karyotyping), provides another tool by which to select the most “competent” embryos for transfer. This methodology has selective benefit when it comes to older women, women with DOR, cases of unexplained repeated IVF failure and women who experience recurrent pregnancy loss (RPL).
3.The number of the embryos transferred: Most patients believe that the more embryos transferred the greater the chance of success. To some extent this might be true, but if the problem lies with the use of a suboptimal COS protocol, transferring more embryos at a time won’t improve the chance of success. Nor will the transfer of a greater number of embryos solve an underlying embryo implantation dysfunction (anatomical molecular or immunologic).Moreover, the transfer of multiple embryos, should they implant, can and all too often does result in triplets or greater (high order multiples) which increases the incidence of maternal pregnancy-induced complications and of premature delivery with its serious risks to the newborn. It is for this reason that I rarely recommend the transfer of more than 2 embryos at a time and am moving in the direction of advising single embryo transfers …especially when it comes to transferring embryos derived through the fertilization of eggs from young women.
4.Implantation Dysfunction (ID): Implantation dysfunction is a very common (often overlooked) cause of “unexplained” IVF failure. This is especially the case in young ovulating women who have normal ovarian reserve and have fertile partners. Failure to identify, typify, and address such issues is, in my opinion, an unfortunate and relatively common cause of repeated IVF failure in such women. Common sense dictates that if ultrasound guided embryo transfer is performed competently and yet repeated IVF attempts fail to propagate a viable pregnancy, implantation dysfunction must be seriously considered. Yet ID is probably the most overlooked factor. The most common causes of implantation dysfunction are:
a.A“ thin uterine lining”
b.A uterus with surface lesions in the cavity (polyps, fibroids, scar tissue)
c.Immunologic implantation dysfunction (IID)
d.Endocrine/molecular endometrial receptivity issues
Certain causes of infertility are repetitive and thus cannot readily be reversed. Examples include advanced age of the woman; severe male infertility; immunologic infertility associated with alloimmune implantation dysfunction (especially if it is a “complete DQ alpha genetic match between partners plus uterine natural killer cell activation (NKa).
I strongly recommend that you visit http://www.DrGeoffreySherIVF.com. Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.
•The IVF Journey: The importance of “Planning the Trip” Before Taking the Ride”
•Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
•IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation(COS)
•The Fundamental Requirements For Achieving Optimal IVF Success
•Use of GnRH Antagonists (Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron) in IVF-Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
•Ovarian Stimulation in Women Who have Diminished Ovarian Reserve (DOR): Introducing the Agonist/Antagonist Conversion protocol
•Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
•Human Growth Hormone Administration in IVF: Does it Enhances Egg/Embryo Quality and Outcome?
•The BCP: Does Launching a Cycle of Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS). Coming off the BCP Compromise Response?
•Blastocyst Embryo Transfers Should be the Standard of Care in IVF
•IVF: How Many Attempts should be considered before Stopping?
•“Unexplained” Infertility: Often a matter of the Diagnosis Being Overlooked!
•IVF Failure and Implantation Dysfunction:
•The Role of Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID):PART 1-Background
•Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID):PART 2- Making a Diagnosis
•Immunologic Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID):PART 3-Treatment
•Thyroid autoantibodies and Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID)
•Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction: Importance of Meticulous Evaluation and Strategic Management:(Case Report
•Intralipid and IVIG therapy: Understanding the Basis for its use in the Treatment of Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID)
•Intralipid (IL) Administration in IVF: It’s Composition; How it Works; Administration; Side-effects; Reactions and Precautions
•Natural Killer Cell Activation (NKa) and Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction in IVF: The Controversy!
•Endometrial Thickness, Uterine Pathology and Immunologic Factors
•Vaginally Administered Viagra is Often a Highly Effective Treatment to Help Thicken a Thin Uterine Lining
•Treating Out-of-State and Out-of-Country Patients at Sher-IVF in Las Vegas:
•A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF
•How Many Embryos should be transferred: A Critical Decision in IVF.
•The Role of Nutritional Supplements in Preparing for IVF
Please call or email Julie Dahan, my patient concierge. She will guide you on how to set up an in-person or Skype consultation with me. You can reach Julie at on her cell phone or via email at any time:
Julie Dahan
•Email: Julied@sherivf.com
•Phone: 702-533-2691
?800-780-7437
Geoff Sher
I also suggest that you access the 4th edition of my book ,”In Vitro Fertilization, the ART of Making Babies”. It is available as a down-load through http://www.Amazon.com or from most bookstores and public libraries.
Good Day Dr. Sher,
I am 29, struggling to conceive, this is my story:
I was diagnosed with Endometriosis in 2015, had a laparoscopy and hysteroscopy done in October 2015, my Fertility Specialist did recommend that we try again to conceive naturally after the operation…of which we had no success,
In August 2016 we went back and I immediately started the mu first IVF process,
I had 9 Eggs retrieved of which 5 fertilised and only 3 made it to freeze,
My First Transfer was in December 2016, 2 Embryos…which gave me a negative result….
2nd Transfer February 2017 which returned a hcg result of 27% I went back after 2 days to double check and the count dropped and it was negative,
The way forward it recommended that we do the pgs screening first and then transfer the ones that will have a better result,
Why could it possibly be that the first cycle failed so terribly?
Do you think that I have a better chance with the pgs screen…?
Do you think that I have a better chance with my second attempt?
Is there anything I can do from my side to better my chances of conceiving with my second IVF attempt?
Thank you!
Regards
More than half of women who have endometriosis harbor antiphospholipid antibodies (APA) that can compromise development of the embryo’s root system (trophoblast). In addition and far more serious, is the fact that in about one third of cases endometriosis, regardless of its severity is associated with NKa and cytotoxic uterine lymphocytes (CTL) which can seriously jeopardize implantation. This immunologic implantation dysfunction (IID) is diagnosed by testing the woman’s blood for APA, for NKa (using the K-562 target cell test or by endometrial biopsy for cytokine activity) and, for CTL (by a blood immunophenotype). Activated NK cells attack the invading trophoblast cells (developing “root system” of the embryo/early conceptus) as soon as it tries to gain attachment to the uterine wall. In most cases, this results in rejection of the embryo even before the pregnancy is diagnosed and sometimes, in a chemical pregnancy or an early miscarriage. As such, many women with endometriosis, rather than being infertile, in the strict sense of the word, often actually experience repeated undetected “mini-miscarriages”.
Women who harbor APA’s often experience improved IVF birth rates when heparinoids (Clexane/Lovenox) are administered from the onset of ovarian stimulation with gonadotropins until the 10th week of pregnancy. NKa is treated with a combination of Intralipid (IL) and steroid therapy: Intralipid (IL) is a solution of small lipid droplets suspended in water. When administered intravenously, IL provides essential fatty acids, linoleic acid (LA), an omega-6 fatty acid, alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), an omega-3 fatty acid.IL is made up of 20% soybean oil/fatty acids (comprising linoleic acid, oleic acid, palmitic acid, linolenic acid and stearic acid) , 1.2% egg yolk phospholipids (1.2%), glycerin (2.25%) and water (76.5%).IL exerts a modulating effect on certain immune cellular mechanisms largely by down-regulating NKa.
The therapeutic effect of IL/steroid therapy is likely due to an ability to suppress pro-inflammatory cellular (Type-1) cytokines such as interferon gamma and TNF-alpha. IL/steroids down-regulates NKa within 2-3 weeks of treatment the vast majority of women experiencing immunologic implantation dysfunction. In this regard IL is just as effective as Intravenous Gamma globulin (IVIg) but at a fraction of the cost and with a far lower incidence of side-effects. Its effect lasts for 4-9 weeks when administered in early pregnancy.
The toxic pelvic environment caused by endometriosis, profoundly reduces natural fertilization potential. As a result normally ovulating infertile women with endometriosis and patent Fallopian tubes are much less likely to conceive naturally, or by using fertility agents alone (with or without intrauterine (IUI) insemination. The only effective way to bypass this adverse pelvic environment is through IVF. I am not suggesting here that all women who have endometriosis require IVF! Rather, I am saying that in cases where the condition is further compromised by an IID associated with NKa and/or for older women(over 35y) who have diminished ovarian reserve (DOR) where time is of the essence, it is my opinion that IVF is the treatment of choice.
Whenever a patient fails to achieve a viable pregnancy following embryo transfer (ET), the first question asked is why! Was it simply due to, bad luck?, How likely is the failure to recur in future attempts and what can be done differently, to avoid it happening next time?.
It is an indisputable fact that any IVF procedure is at least as likely to fail as it is to succeed. Thus when it comes to outcome, luck is an undeniable factor. Notwithstanding, it is incumbent upon the treating physician to carefully consider and address the causes of IVF failure before proceeding to another attempt:
1.Age: The chance of a woman under 35Y of age having a baby per embryo transfer is about 35-40%. From there it declines progressively to under 5% by the time she reaches her mid-forties. This is largely due to declining chromosomal integrity of the eggs with advancing age…”a wear and tear effect” on eggs that are in the ovaries from birth.
2.Embryo Quality/”competency (capable of propagating a viable pregnancy)”. As stated, the woman’s age plays a big role in determining egg/embryo quality/”competency”. This having been said, aside from age the protocol used for controlled ovarian stimulation (COS) is the next most important factor. It is especially important when it comes to older women, and women with diminished ovarian reserve (DOR) where it becomes essential to be aggressive, and to customize and individualize the ovarian stimulation protocol.
We used to believe that the uterine environment is more beneficial to embryo development than is the incubator/petri dish and that accordingly, the earlier on in development that embryos are transferred to the uterus, the better. To achieve this goal, we used to select embryos for transfer based upon their day two or microscopic appearance (“grade”). But we have since learned that the further an embryo has advanced in its development, the more likely it is to be “competent” and that embryos failing to reach the expanded blastocyst stage within 5-6 days of being fertilized are almost invariably “incompetent” and are unworthy of being transferred. Moreover, the introduction into clinical practice about a decade ago, (by Levent Keskintepe PhD and myself) of Preimplantation Genetic Sampling (PGS), which assesses for the presence of all the embryos chromosomes (complete chromosomal karyotyping), provides another tool by which to select the most “competent” embryos for transfer. This methodology has selective benefit when it comes to older women, women with DOR, cases of unexplained repeated IVF failure and women who experience recurrent pregnancy loss (RPL).
3.The number of the embryos transferred: Most patients believe that the more embryos transferred the greater the chance of success. To some extent this might be true, but if the problem lies with the use of a suboptimal COS protocol, transferring more embryos at a time won’t improve the chance of success. Nor will the transfer of a greater number of embryos solve an underlying embryo implantation dysfunction (anatomical molecular or immunologic).Moreover, the transfer of multiple embryos, should they implant, can and all too often does result in triplets or greater (high order multiples) which increases the incidence of maternal pregnancy-induced complications and of premature delivery with its serious risks to the newborn. It is for this reason that I rarely recommend the transfer of more than 2 embryos at a time and am moving in the direction of advising single embryo transfers …especially when it comes to transferring embryos derived through the fertilization of eggs from young women.
4.Implantation Dysfunction (ID): Implantation dysfunction is a very common (often overlooked) cause of “unexplained” IVF failure. This is especially the case in young ovulating women who have normal ovarian reserve and have fertile partners. Failure to identify, typify, and address such issues is, in my opinion, an unfortunate and relatively common cause of repeated IVF failure in such women. Common sense dictates that if ultrasound guided embryo transfer is performed competently and yet repeated IVF attempts fail to propagate a viable pregnancy, implantation dysfunction must be seriously considered. Yet ID is probably the most overlooked factor. The most common causes of implantation dysfunction are:
a.A“ thin uterine lining”
b.A uterus with surface lesions in the cavity (polyps, fibroids, scar tissue)
c.Immunologic implantation dysfunction (IID)
d.Endocrine/molecular endometrial receptivity issues
Certain causes of infertility are repetitive and thus cannot readily be reversed. Examples include advanced age of the woman; severe male infertility; immunologic infertility associated with alloimmune implantation dysfunction (especially if it is a “complete DQ alpha genetic match between partners plus uterine natural killer cell activation (NKa).
I strongly recommend that you visit http://www.DrGeoffreySherIVF.com. Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.
•The IVF Journey: The importance of “Planning the Trip” Before Taking the Ride”
•Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
•IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation(COS)
•The Fundamental Requirements For Achieving Optimal IVF Success
•Use of GnRH Antagonists (Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron) in IVF-Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
•Ovarian Stimulation in Women Who have Diminished Ovarian Reserve (DOR): Introducing the Agonist/Antagonist Conversion protocol
•Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
•Human Growth Hormone Administration in IVF: Does it Enhances Egg/Embryo Quality and Outcome?
•The BCP: Does Launching a Cycle of Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS). Coming off the BCP Compromise Response?
•Blastocyst Embryo Transfers Should be the Standard of Care in IVF
•IVF: How Many Attempts should be considered before Stopping?
•“Unexplained” Infertility: Often a matter of the Diagnosis Being Overlooked!
•IVF Failure and Implantation Dysfunction:
•The Role of Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID):PART 1-Background
•Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID):PART 2- Making a Diagnosis
•Immunologic Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID):PART 3-Treatment
•Thyroid autoantibodies and Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID)
•Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction: Importance of Meticulous Evaluation and Strategic Management:(Case Report
•Intralipid and IVIG therapy: Understanding the Basis for its use in the Treatment of Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID)
•Intralipid (IL) Administration in IVF: It’s Composition; How it Works; Administration; Side-effects; Reactions and Precautions
•Natural Killer Cell Activation (NKa) and Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction in IVF: The Controversy!
•Endometrial Thickness, Uterine Pathology and Immunologic Factors
•Vaginally Administered Viagra is Often a Highly Effective Treatment to Help Thicken a Thin Uterine Lining
•Treating Out-of-State and Out-of-Country Patients at Sher-IVF in Las Vegas:
•A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF
•How Many Embryos should be transferred: A Critical Decision in IVF.
•The Role of Nutritional Supplements in Preparing for IVF
Please call or email Julie Dahan, my patient concierge. She will guide you on how to set up an in-person or Skype consultation with me. You can reach Julie at on her cell phone or via email at any time:
Julie Dahan
•Email: Julied@sherivf.com
•Phone: 702-533-2691
?800-780-7437
Geoff Sher
I also suggest that you access the 4th edition of my book ,”In Vitro Fertilization, the ART of Making Babies”. It is available as a down-load through http://www.Amazon.com or from most bookstores and public libraries.
Dr. Sher,
Is there any way to do your A/ACP protocol w/ estrogen priming without using birth controls pills to launch it, or is the overlapping of the BC pill and lupron a key element of the protocol? Also, is a low dose of menopur OK for me in this protocol (36 y.o., .6 AMH, somewhat poor responder), what’s the max dose you would do or would you avoid it entirely and if so what replaces the menopur? I respond much better to menopur than to gonal f, so I’m hesitant to remove the menopur completely. Thanks, Michelle
Yes indeed =Michelle. The BCP can be avoided in which case the agonist (Lupron/Buserelin) starts in the mid-luteal phase, (usually around day 21) and 125mcg of daily antagonist (Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron) begins with the onset of gonadotropin stimulation. And yes, using this aproach I would keep the Menopur at no more than 75U daily.
Hope this helps!
Geoff Sher
Hello, Dr. Sher! (I posted this in one of your articles, so I am reposting here)
I had a Donor Egg transfer of a 5 day frozen blastocyst on March 23rd. I am 44.5 years old. Our embryo was PGS-tested and found to be normal. I tested with an internet cheapie with First Morning Urine on 6dp5dt. It was negative. I saw a very small amount of bleeding mid day, so I took at First Response test that evening, resulting in a very faint positive.
I had my first beta on the morning of 8dp5dt. My beta was 6.9. I still get positives (albeit faint)on my HPTs. My RE said that because my number is >5, I am ‘pregnant’ but they want me to come back in on 11dp5dt for a follow up beta. Words can’t even describe the torture of waiting over the weekend!
Short of getting my MD from Google University or WebMD (smile)– I am coming to the only other place I know that provides answers. Have you every seen a beta this low (6.9) at 8dp5dt that went on to become a viable pregnancy? Is there such a thing as late implantation that would have had an impact on this number? Thank you for your time!
This is not encouraging but yes Bridget, I have indeed frequently seen a good outcome starting with such low beta hCG level.
I understand your torment and ordeal and my thoughts and prayers are with and for you.
Good luck!
Geoff Sher
Hi Dr. Sher, I’m 34 years old, no children, no abortions (never been pregnant) and about to undergo my second FET. After >3 weeks of prep with estradiol (oral, vaginal, intramuscular, and patch) and 25 days of viagra suppositories (25 mg sildenafil 4x a day), my endometrium lining is still hovering around a disappointing 6 mm. This is about the same as the first FET, when I wasn’t using viagra nor taking as many forms of estradiol. We’ve known that my lining was going to be an issue since my egg retrieval in October 2016 – after retrieving 52 eggs (16 excellent quality are now frozen) and an estradiol level of 11,500+ a few days before trigger, my lining was still only 7mm. I’m shocked I didn’t experience OHSS, but I worked hard to prevent it. Since the first failed FET, we’ve done a hysteroscopy (removed a small polyp), endometrial scratch, D&C (all in same procedure) and everything appears to look good structurally. I have AMH level of 37 and was diagnosed with PCOS at the start of my treatment (February 2016). Given the lack of responsiveness to estrogen and viagra, and the PCOS diagnosis, can you suggest any other creative routes?
I’ve been going to acupuncture for 6+ months, but specifically seeing a fertility acupuncturist (electro-acupuncture and Chinese herbs) for the last 3 months. I’ve also been taking some natural supplements to try to thicken lining. Whenever my body is full of hormones (weeks leading into to FET), I feel sick. I also felt sick just a few days following transfer in January, which lasted for almost the entire 10 days leading up to the HCG blood test. I brought this up with my dr (I’ve done quite a bit of reading about natural killer cells), but she just mentioned it was a controversial topic. My mother and brother both have hypothyroidism and my father has an autoimmune condition, but the blood work performed by PCP has come back normal (antibody panel, TSH, T3, T4, SED rate, etc). It just feels like something is missing and continuing to take estrogen and progesterone, and attempting additional transfers with anticipatory fail, feels like beating my head against a wall. In my most recent lining check (RE and I needed to make a decision about upcoming transfer due to thin lining), dr mentioned needing to have a tough conversation about gestational carriers. She’s out of ideas.
I scheduled an appointment with Dr Saleh here in Dallas for the end of this month. I also considered a consultation with you to see if you have any thoughts that we haven’t though of / tried yet. Based on everything I’ve described, do you think a consultation would be useful? Many thanks.
(Your research about the use of viagra to thicken endometrium lining was a bright spot these last couple of months, I’m disappointed it didn’t work for me, but do appreciate the creativity. I need help (again) to think outside the box.)
Your thin lining bears careful evaluation. Women with PCOS often have high ovarian testosterone which compromises egg development and thus also embryo competency. The testosterone also reaches the uterus in high concentration and this can compromise endometrial response to estrogen . In such cases, Viagra will have little effect. In my opinion, what might help would be to go on to a BCP for several months to lower pituitary LH and thereby less ovarian testosterone production for a sufficient period of time (around 3months) before re-trying hormonal stimulation.
The other issue is (although you did not mention it), women with PCOS are at risk of developing OHSS and in such cases, the RE often lowers the hCG trigger dosage or triggers with an agonist such as Lupron. While this does reduce risk to the mother, it comes at the expense of egg quality (in my opinion). There are other (and in my opinion) better ways to address this risk.
Severe Ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome (OHSS) is often associated with e poor egg/embryo quality. This is especially so in women with high ovarian LH-induced testosterone (e.g. those with PCOS). The often present with poorly developed (“dysmorphic”) eggs, with reduced fertilization potential and yielding “poor quality embryos”. However, in the author’s opinion (which admittedly runs contrary to popular opinion), this is unlikely to be due to an intrinsic deficit in egg quality. Rather, it more likely relates to intra-ovarian hormonal changes brought about by hyperstimulation and which compromise egg development. This effect, in my opinion, can often be significantly reduced through implementation of an individualized or customized ovarian stimulation protocols that minimize exposure of the developing follicles and eggs to excessive LH-induced ovarian androgens. This can be best achieved by limiting the use of LH-containing gonadotropins such as Menopur through selective institution of “prolonged coasting” (see below). Approaches to preventing OHSS include:
1.PROLONGED COASTING (My preferred approach) : My approach is to use a long pituitary DR protocol coming off up to 2 months on the BCP, overlapped in the last 3 days with the agonist, Lupron. The BCP is intended to lower LH and thereby reduce stromal activation (hyperthecosis) in the hope of controlling ovarian androgen (predominantly, testosterone) production and release. I then stimulate with low dosage FSHr (Follistim/Gonal-F/Puregon) to which I add a smidgeon of LH/hCG (Luveris/Menopur) from the 3rd day. Then, starting on day 7 of ovarian stimulation, I perform serial blood estradiol (E2) and ultrasound follicle assessments, watching for the # of follicles and [E2]. If there are > 25 follicles, I keep stimulating (regardless of the [E2] until 50% of all follicles reach 14mm. At this point, provided the [E2] reaches at least >2,500pg/ml, I stop the agonist as well as gonadotropin stimulation and track the blood E2 (without continuing US, follicle measurements) ) daily. The [E2] will almost invariably increase for a few days. I watch the E2 rise (regardless of how high a blood concentration it reaches) and then track it coming down again. As soon as the [E2] drops below 2500pg/ml (and not before then), I administer a “trigger” shot of 10,000U hCGu (Profasi/ Novarel/Pregnyl) or hCGr (Ovidrel/Ovitrel-500mcg) and perform an egg retrieval 36 hours later. ICSI is a MUST because “coasted” eggs usually have no cumulus oophoris envelopment and eggs without a cumulus will not readily fertilize naturally. Moreover, they also tend to have a “hardened” envelopment (zona pellucida), making spontaneous fertilization problematic in many cases. All fertilized eggs are cultured to blastocyst (up to 6 days) and are then either vitrified and preserved for subsequent transfer in later hormone replacement cycles or up to two (2) fresh blastocysts are transferred transvaginal under US guidance.. The success of this approach depends on precise timing of the initiation and conclusion of “prolonged coasting”. If you start too early, follicle growth will stop and the cycle will be lost. If you start too late, you will encounter too many post-mature/cystic follicles (>22mm) that usually harbor abnormally developed eggs. Use of “Coasting” avoids unnecessary cycle cancellation, severe OHSS, and optimizes egg/embryo quality. The worst you will encounter is mild to moderate OHSS and this too is uncommon. The obvious remedy for these adverse effects on egg and endometrial development is to employ stimulation protocols that limit ovarian over-exposure to LH and allowing the time necessary for the follicles/eggs to develop optimally, prior to administering hCG through the judicious implementation of “Prolonged coasting” (PC).
2.MULTIPLE FOLLICLE ASPIRATION: In some cases, where because of mean follicle size exceeding 16mm or when “coasting” fails to effectively lower the [E2} below 2,500pg/ml within 3 days, the number of developing follicles can effectively and drastically reduced through target transvaginal aspiration, 1-3 PRIOR to planned the hCG trigger. This will almost invariably be accompanied by a rapid and significant drop in the plasma [E2] and in the process will drastically reduce reduce the risk of OHSS occurring without significantly compromising egg/embryo quality. The drawback of this effective approach is the fact that it interjects an additional surgical intervention into an already complex and stressful situation. i
3.TRIGGERING WITH LOW DOISAGE hCG; Because of the fact that hCG augments the development of OHSS (unless preceded by “coasting”), may RE’s prefer to use a lower dosage of hCG for the “trigger. This is either done by administering 5,000U (half the traditional dosage) or by administering, a 250mcg (rather than 500mcg) of DNA recombinant form of hCGr (Ovidrel/Ovitrel. Some clinicians, when faced with a risk of OHSS developing will deliberately elect to reduce the “trigger” dosage of hCG administered (from 10,000U to 5,000U or 250mcg of recombinant hCG-Ovidrel) in the hope that by doing so the risk of critical OHSS developing will be lowered. While this might indeed be true, it is my opinion, that such a reduced dosage is usually insufficient to optimize the efficiency of egg meiosis, e3specially when there are so many follicles present. While the use of a reduced “trigger” dosage of hCG does indeed reduce the risk and occurrence of OHSS-related life-endangering complications, the price to be paid is reduced egg quality/”competency”.
4.“TRIGGERING” WITH A GnRH AGONIST (E.G. “LUPRON/BUSERELIN): More recently, an increasing number of RE’s prefer to trigger meiosis by way of an agonist (Lupron/Buserelin/Superfact () “trigger” rather than through the use of hCG. The idea is to mimic what happens in natural cycles to promote egg maturation (meiosis) and ovulation, namely to have the agonist cause a “surge” in the release of body’s own pituitary LH to trigger egg meiosis (maturation) .But the amount of LH released in by the pituitary gland is often insufficient to optimize meiotic egg maturation and thus, while this approach also lowers the risk of OHSS it again comes at the expense of egg quality/competency.
I strongly recommend that you visit http://www.DrGeoffreySherIVF.com. Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.
•The IVF Journey: The importance of “Planning the Trip” Before Taking the Ride”
•Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
•IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation(COS)
•The Fundamental Requirements For Achieving Optimal IVF Success
•Use of GnRH Antagonists (Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron) in IVF-Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
•Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
•Treating Out-of-State and Out-of-Country Patients at Sher-IVF in Las Vegas:
•A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF
•Preventing Severe Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome (OHSS) with “Prolonged Coasting.
•“Triggering” Egg Maturation in IVF: Comparing urine-derived hCG, Recombinant DNA-hCG and GnRH-agonist:
•The “Lupron Trigger” to Prevent Severe OHSS: What are the Pro’s and Con’s?
•Email: Julied@sherivf.com
•Phone: 702-533-2691
?800-780-7437
Geoff Sher
I also suggest that you access the 4th edition of my book ,”In Vitro Fertilization, the ART of Making Babies”. It is available as a down-load through http://www.Amazon.com or from most bookstores and public libraries.