Ask Our Doctors – Archive
Our Medical Directors are outstanding physicians that you will find to be very personable and compassionate, who take care to ensure that you have the most cutting-edge fertility treatments at your disposal. This is your outlet to ask your questions to the doctors.
Dear Dr. Sher,
I am a 34.5 year old currently living in Philadelphia. My husband and I have been trying to conceive for around 2 years. I have had 4 chemical pregnancies/miscarriages at 4-5 weeks everytime I am pregnant with and without luteal phase support. I have also had 1 failed FET with a pre screened embryo in “perfect” condition. We have had all of the tests that the average fertility clinic will offer. The only issues that they could find were a blocked fallopean tube, an arcuate uterus, and a positive cardiolipin antibody IgG. The cardiolipin antibody is mild and only elevates when I become pregnant to a mild/moderate level. They really haven’t found anything severe enough to warrant recurrent chemical pregnancies. An observation that I have made is every time that I become pregnant, it lasts for less and less time. The very first time I was pregnant was the longest. My current RE wants me to continue to do IVF, but I feel that I would only be throwing money down a dry well at this point. Do you feel that I could possibly have an immunologic dysfunction? What other testing would you recommend having to find out more information before commiting to another round of IVF? Thank you for your time and insight.
Many thanks,
Stephanie
Hi Dr. Sher,
I have PCOS and a good ovarian reserve. I have done IVF twice now. The first time there were 11 follicles, 10 eggs retrieved, 4 mature and only 1 fertilized. We transferred on Day 3 but it didn’t work. The second time, we had 20 follicles, 10 eggs retrieved and only 2 mature. Both the embryos have fragmentation, one is developing normally and the other is a slow grower. I have 2 questions.
1. When I had 20 follicles, why were only 10 eggs retrieved?
2. Why are so many of my eggs immature? Could I be triggered too soon?
In my opinion, it is likely due to the protocol used for ovarian stimulation.Particularly in women with PCOS this needs to be done strategically.
1. PCOS:
Polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) is a common hormonal system disorder among women affecting between 5% and 10% of women of reproductive age worldwide. Women with PCOS may have enlarged ovaries that contain small collections of fluid — called follicles — located in each ovary as seen during an ultrasound. The condition is characterized by abnormal ovarian function (irregular or absent periods, abnormal or absent ovulation and infertility), androgenicity (increased body hair or hirsutism, acne) and increased body weight –body mass index or BMI. The ovaries of women with PCOS characteristically contain multiple micro-cysts often arranged like a “string of pearls” immediately below the ovarian surface (capsule).interspersed by an overgrowth of ovarian connective tissue (stroma).
PCOS is one of the most common causes of menstrual irregularities, infertility, and hirsutism, Despite an enormous effort to define its cause, the etiology of PCOS remains unclear, and there is no definite cure at this time. PCOS is clearly a heterogeneous disorder which often has a familial (genetic) basis. Infertility associated with PCOS has been attributed to numerous factors, including dysfunctional gonadotropin pituitary secretion, peripheral insulin resistance, elevated adrenal and/or ovarian androgen (male hormone) levels, and dysfunction of several growth factors. Women with this condition are often obese and insulin resistant. The compensatory hyperinsulinemia further stimulates ovarian androgen production which may be detrimental to egg maturation and there is a clear link between the degree of insulin resistance and anovulation. PCOS is also a significant long-term health risk for women, thus necessitating vigilance through regular annual examinations (non-insulin dependent diabetes mellitus, hypertension, hypercholesterolemia, cardiovascular disease and endometrial cancer). Whereas PCOS-related infertility is usually manageable through the use of fertility drugs, lifestyle changes (diet and exercise) remain a mainstay of long-term therapy. More recently, ovulation rates, circulating androgens, pregnancy rates and perhaps even first-trimester miscarriage rates have been shown to improve when insulin sensitizers like metformin are used to correct the underlying insulin resistance.
Most patients with PCOS are young and have excellent pregnancy rates with oral clomiphene. Those that require more aggressive treatments with injectable medications probably represent a subgroup of PCOS patients with severe ovarian dysfunction. These women often have explosive response to gonadotropins which can result in serious complications like Severe Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome (OHSS…see below) and high order multiple births. In those women, the ability to perform “prolonged coasting” (see below) and selectively transfer fewer embryos during IVF offers a clear advantage over standard gonadotropin injections.
Egg quality in PCOS
The potential for a woman’s eggs to undergo orderly maturation, successful fertilization and subsequent progression to “good quality embryos” is in large part genetically determined. However, the expression of such potential is profoundly susceptible to numerous influences, especially intra-ovarian hormonal changes during the pre-ovulatory phase of the cycle. Proper follicular stimulation as well as precise timing of egg maturation with LH (Luteinizing Hormone) or hCG (human chorionic gonadotropin) is crucial to optimal egg maturation, fertilization and ultimately embryo quality. Both pituitary gonadotropins, LH and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) play a pivotal but different role in follicular development. The action of FSH is mainly directed toward granulosa cell (cells lining the inside of the follicle) proliferation and estrogen production (E2). LH, on the other hand, acts primarily on the ovarian stroma (the connective tissue that surrounds the follicle) to produce androgens. While small amounts of ovarian androgens, such as testosterone, enhance egg and follicle development, over-exposure to them can have a deleterious effect. Furthermore, excessive ovarian androgens can also compromise estrogen-induced endometrial growth and development.
Suppressing pituitary secretion of LH with gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) agonists such as Lupron®, is particularly useful in PCOS. In that condition, serum LH levels are elevated, leading to stromal overgrowth, follicular arrests (so-called cysts) and high levels of androgens synthesis. It is therefore not surprising that these follicles often yield poorly developed (“immature”) eggs” at the time of egg retrieval (ET) and that “poor egg/embryo quality”, inadequate endometrial development and high miscarriage rates are common features of this condition. However, contrary to popular belief, this is not due to an intrinsic deficit in “egg quality”. Stimulation protocols geared toward optimizing follicle and egg development and avoiding over exposure to androgens correct these problems ad result in pregnancy rates similar to those of non-PCOS women. Whereas the overuse of LH-containing preparations such as Menopur® and Luveris® further aggravates this effect. In conclusion, to maximize ultimate oocyte maturation, we strongly recommend against the exclusive use of such products in PCOS patients, preferring FSH-dominant products such as Folistim®, Gonal F® or Bravelle® over a period of at least 9 days following pituitary suppression with Lupron®.
PCOS women often have a family history of diabetes and demonstrable insulin resistance (evidenced by high blood insulin levels and an abnormal 2-hour glucose tolerance test).This underlying Diabetes mellitus tendency could play a role in the development of PCOS and contribute to the development of obesity, an abnormal blood lipid profile, and a predisposition to coronary vascular disease. Women with PCOS are slightly more at risk of developing uterine, ovarian and possibly also breast cancer in later life and accordingly should be evaluated for these conditions on a more frequent basis than would ordinarily be recommended to non-PCOS women.
Most women with PCOS either do not ovulate at all or they ovulate irregularly. As a consequence thereof they in addition usually experience delayed, absent or irregular menstruation. In addition, an inordinate percentage of the eggs produced by PCOS women following ovulation induction, tend to be chromosomally abnormal (aneuploid). Rather than being due to an intrinsic egg defect being inherent in PCOS women, the poor egg quality more than likely the result of over-exposure to male hormones (predominantly, testosterone) produced by the ovarian stroma. These two factors (ovulation dysfunction and poor egg quality) are the main reasons for the poor reproductive performance (infertility and an increased miscarriage rate) in PCOS women.
PCOS patients are at an inordinate risk of severely over-responding fertility drugs, both oral varieties (e.g. Clomiphene, Serophene & Femara) and especially the injectables (e.g. Follistim, Puregon, Gonal F, Menopur and Bravelle) by forming large numbers ovarian follicles. This can lead to life endangering complications associated with sever ovarian hyperstimulation (OHSS). In addition PCOS women receiving fertility drugs often experience multiple ovulations putting them at severe risk (40%+) of high order multiple pregnancy (i.e. triplets or greater) with often devastating consequences.
VARIETIES OF POLYCYSTIC OVARIAN SYNDROME:
1) Hypothalamic-pituitary-PCOS: This is the commonest form of PCOS and is often genetically transmitted and is characteristically associated with a blood concentration of Luteinizing Hormone (LH) that is uncharacteristically much higher than the Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) level (FSH is normally higher than the LH concentration) as well as high-normal or blood androgen ( male) hormone concentrations (e.g. androstenedione, testosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone -DHEA).Hypothalamic-pituitary-ovarian PCOS is also often associated with insulin resistance and in about 40%-50% of the cases.
2) Adrenal PCOS: Here the excess of male hormones are derived from overactive adrenal glands rather than from the ovaries. Blood levels of testosterone and/or androstenedione raised but here, but here, the blood level of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEAS) is also raised, clinching the diagnosis.
3) Severe pelvic adhesive disease secondary to severe endometriosis, chronic pelvic inflammatory disease and/or extensive pelvic surgery: Women who have this type of PCOS tend to less likely to hyperstimulate in response to ovulation induction . Their. DHEAS is also is not raised.
TREATMENT OF INFERTILITY DUE TO ASSOCIATED OVULATION DYSFUNCTION:
Hypothalamic-pituitary-/ovarian PCOS: Ovulation induction with fertility drugs such as clomiphene citrate, Letrozole (Femara) or gonadotropins, with or without intrauterine insemination (IUI) is often highly successful in establishing pregnancies in PCOS women. However, IVF is fast becoming a treatment of choice (see below).
In about 40% of cases, 3-6 months of oral Metformin (Glucophage) treatment results in a significant reduction of insulin resistance, lowering of blood androgen levels, an improvement in ovulatory function, and/or some amelioration of androgenous symptoms and signs.
Surgical treatment by “ovarian drilling” of the many small ovarian cysts lying immediately below the envelopment (capsule) of the ovaries, is often used, but is less successful than alternative non-surgical treatment and is only temporarily effective. The older form of surgical treatment, using ovarian wedge resection is rarely used any longer as it can produce severe pelvic adhesion formation.
Adrenal PCOS is treated with steroids such as prednisone or dexamethasone which over a period of several weeks will suppress adrenal androgen production, allowing regular ovulation to take place spontaneously. This is often combined with clomiphene, Letrozole and/or gonadotropin therapy to initiate ovulation.
PCOS attributable to Pelvic Adhesive Disease is one variety which often is associated with compromised ovarian reserve, a raised FSH blood level and ovarian resistance to fertility drugs. In many such cases, high dosage of gonadotropins (FSH-dominant) with “estrogen priming” will often elicit an ovarian response necessary for successful ovulation induction and/or IVF. Neither steroids nor Metformin are helpful in the vast majority of such cases.
PCOS women undergoing ovulation induction usually release multiple eggs following the hCG trigger and are thus at inordinate risk of twin or higher order multiple pregnancies. They are also at risk of developing OHSS. Many now believe that IVF should be regarded as a primary and preferential treatment for PCOS. The reason is that it is only through this approach that the number of embryos reaching the uterus can be controlled and in this manner the risk of high-order multiples can be minimized and it is only in the course of IVF treatment that a novel treatment method known as “prolonged coasting” ( see below) which prevents OHSS, can be implemented
SEVERE OVARIAN HYPERSTIMULATION SYNDROME (OHSS):
As indicated above, there is an inordinate propensity for women with PCOS to hyper-respond to gonadotropin fertility drugs and in the process produce large numbers of ovarian follicles. If left unchecked this can lead to OHSS, a potentially life endangering condition. The onset of OHSS is signaled by the development of a large number of ovarian follicles (usually more than 25 in number). This is accompanied by rapidly rising plasma estradiol (E2) levels, often exceeding 3000pg/ml within 7 or 9 days of stimulation, often rapidly peaking above 6,000 pg/ml prior to hCG administration. When this happens, the risk of OHSS developing is above 80%.
Symptoms and signs of OHSS include: abdominal distention due to fluid collection (ascites), fluid in the chest cavity (hydrothorax), rapid weight gain (of a pound or more per day) due to tissue fluid retention, abdominal pain, lower back ache, nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, visual disturbances such as blurred vision and spots in front of the eyes (scotomata), a rapidly declining urine output, cardiovascular collapse and failure of blood to clot which sometimes results in severe bruising (echymosis) and frank bleeding. These symptoms and signs may appear before pregnancy can be diagnosed. If pregnancy occurs, the condition is likely to worsen progressively over a period of 3-5 weeks whereupon it rapidly resolves spontaneously over a few days. If no pregnancy occurs, the symptoms and signs all disappear spontaneously within 10-12 days of the hCG injection.
When increasing fluid collection in the abdominal cavity (ascites) starts to compromise breathing raising the head of the bed rose slightly by placing a 4-6 inch block at the base of each head post and using a few additional pillows, will sometimes help ameliorate the problem. In cases where this does not help or symptoms become severe, all or most of the fluid can readily and safely be drained through t transvaginal sterile needle aspiration (vaginal paracentesis-performed once or sometimes twice a week) can be performed once or twice weekly . The problem will usually self corrects within 10-12 days of the hCG shot if pregnancy does not occur or, by the 8th week of pregnancy.
Urine output should be monitored daily to see if it drops below about 500ml a day (about two cups and a half). A chest X-ray, to evaluate for fluid collection in the chest and around the heart should be done weekly along with blood tests for hematocrit, BUN, electrolytes, creatinine, platelet count and fibrin split products (FSP). If indicated on the basis of a deteriorating clinical situation, hospitalization might be needed for close observation and if necessary, to provide intensive care.
In all case of OHSS, the ovaries will invariably be considerably enlarged. This is irrelevant to the final outcome, unless ovarian torsion (twisting of the ovary on its axis), an extremely rare complication occurs. The latter would usually require surgical emergency surgical intervention.
It is important to know that symptoms and signs of OHSS are severely aggravated by rising hCG levels. Thus such patients should not receive additional hCG injections.
Does PCOS cause poor egg/embryo quality? It is an undeniable fact that women with PCOS undergoing IVF are commonly found to have poorly developed (“dysmorphic”) eggs, with reduced fertilization potential and yielding “poor quality embryos”. However, in the author’s opinion (which admittedly runs contrary to popular opinion), this is unlikely to be due to an intrinsic deficit in egg quality. Rather, it more likely relates to intra-ovarian hormonal changes brought about by hyperstimulation and which compromise egg development. This effect, in the author’s opinion, can often be significantly reduced through implementation of an individualized or customized ovarian stimulation protocols that minimize exposure of the developing follicles and eggs to excessive LH-induced ovarian androgens. This can be best achieved by limiting the use of LH-containing gonadotropins such as Menopur through selective institution of “prolonged coasting” (see below).
In the past, the onset of OHSS, heralded by the presence of large numbers of developing ovarian follicles and rapidly rising plasma estradiol levels often led the treating physician to prematurely administer hCG in an attempt to abruptly arrest the process and prevent escalation of risk to the patient. However the premature administration of hCG, while abruptly arresting further proliferation of estrogen producing granulosa cells in the follicles, unfortunately also prematurely arrests egg development. Since the ability of an egg to achieve optimal maturation upon hCG triggering is largely predicated upon it having achieved prior optimal development, the untimely administration of hCG which triggers meiosis, probably increases the risk of numerical chromosomal abnormalities (aneuploidy) of the egg. This in turn would lead to reduced fertilization potential, poor egg/embryo quality and low embryo implantation potential.
In women with PCOS the connective tissue that surrounding the follicles (ovarian stroma) is often characteristically overgrown (stromal hyperplasia). It is the stroma that produces androgens (mainly testosterone) in response to LH. It is this, coupled with the fact that PCOS women also often have elevated blood LH concentrations (see above) results in the excessive production of androgen hormones, which is so characteristic in PCOS. While excessive exposure of developing eggs to ovarian androgens compromises follicle and egg growth it also impairs endometrial response to estrogen, which could explain the common finding of poor endometrial thickening in many PCOS women undergoing IVF.
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The obvious remedy for these adverse effects on egg and endometrial development is to employ stimulation protocols that limit ovarian over-exposure to LH and allowing the time necessary for the follicles/eggs to develop optimally, prior to administering hCG through the judicious implementation of “Prolonged coasting” (PC).
“PROLONGED COASTING”:
In the early 90’s we were the first to report on “prolonged coasting” (PC), a novel approach that protects egg quality while preventing the development of OHSS. PC has since, gained widespread acceptance as a method of choice for preventing OHSS and has established itself as the “standard of care”. It involves withholding gonadotropin therapy while continuing the administration of the GnRHa and waiting until the plasma estradiol concentration drops below 2,500 pg/ml. Thereupon hCG is administered. In such cases, regardless of the number of developed follicles or the number of eggs retrieved, these women rarely, if ever develop OHSS. It has been reported that while PC virtually eliminates the risk of life-endangering complications associated with OHSS, there are reports in the literature that “the price to pay with PC” is often a poorer fertilization rate and reduced embryo implantation potential, compromising the pregnancy”. It is the author’s opinion an experience in the development of PC that egg/embryo quality deficit likely has little to do with the process of PC, itself and can be explained as follows: When PC is initiated too early, follicle growth and development may cease (as evidenced by the estradiol level plateauing or falling immediately, rather than showing an initial continued increase), and when PC is started too late, the follicles will often become cystic, measuring >21mm by the time the estradiol level falls below the safe threshold of 250000pg/ml, and so harbor dysmorphic eggs. Thus precise timing of the initiation of PC is critical. It should in pact be initiated preemptively in all cases when there are more than 25 follicles and the plasma estradiol reaches or exceeds 2,500pg/ml in association, provided that at least 50% of the follicles measuring 14-16mm in mean diameter. Not a day sooner or a day later. If PC is initiated with precise timing, it will usually be followed by a further progressive rise in the estradiol concentration. After a few days, the estradiol level will plateau and then it will start to fall (often rapidly). The temptation to trigger with hCG before the estradiol level falls below 3000picogtrams per milliliter must be resisted …even if the level falls below 1,000pg/ml by the time hCG is given.
Since when using agonist ( Cetrotide/Ganirelix/Orgalutron) pituitary suppression throughout the stimulation phase with gonadotropins, the plasma estradiol level often under expressed follicle growth, this method of pituitary blockade should not be used in cases ( such as with PCOS) where PC might be required.,
Prolonged coasting prevents canceled cycles and with it, canceled dreams.
2. Why the low maturation/fertilization rate?
One of the commonest questions asked by patients undergoing IVF relates to the likelihood of their eggs fertilizing and the likely “quality of their embryos. This is also one of the most difficult questions to answer. On the one hand many factors that profoundly influence egg quality; such as the genetic recruitment of eggs for use in an upcoming cycle, the woman’s age and her ovarian reserve, are our outside of our control. On the other hand the protocol for controlled ovarian stimulation (COS) can also profoundly influence egg/embryo development and this is indeed chosen by the treating physician.
First; it should be understood that the most important determinant of fertilization potential, embryo development and blastocyst generation, is “competency” of the embryo that is mostly affected by the numerical chromosomal integrity (ploidy) of the egg. While sperm quality does play a role, in the absence of moderate to severe sperm dysfunction this is (moderate or severe male factor infertility a relatively small one). Human eggs have the highest rate of numerical chromosomal irregularities (aneuploidy) of all mammals. In fact only about half the eggs of women in their twenties or early thirties, have the required number of chromosomes (euploid), without which upon fertilization they cannot propagate a normal pregnancy. As the woman advances into and beyond her mid-thirties, the percentage of eggs euploid eggs declines progressively such that by the age of 40 years, only about one out of six are likely to be chromosomally normal. By her mid-only about forties one in ten of her eggs will be euploid and by 4r years of age, fewer than one in twenty will be euploid.
Second; embryos that fail to develop into blastocysts are almost always aneuploid and not worthy of being transferred to the uterus because they will either not implant, will miscarry or could even result in a chromosomally abnormal baby (e.g. Down syndrome). However, it is incorrect to assume that all embryos reaching the blastocyst stage are will be euploid (“competent”). ). It is true that since many aneuploid embryos are lost during development and that those failing to survive to the blastocyst stage are far more likely to be competent than are earlier (cleaved) embryos. What is also true is that the older the woman who produced the eggs, the less likely it is that a given blastocyst will be “competent”. As an example, a morphologically pristine blastocyst derived from the egg of a 30 year old woman would have about a 50:50 chance of being euploid and such a microscopically normal embryo would have 25%-30% chance of propagating a healthy, normal baby, while a microscopically comparable blastocyst derived through fertilization of the eggs from a 40 year old, would be about half as likely to be euploid and/or propagate a healthy baby and by 45 years of age…less than 5%. .
While the effect of species on the potential of eggs to be euploid at ovulation is genetically preordained and nothing we do can alter this equation, there is unfortunately a lot we can (often unwittingly) do to worsen the situation by selecting a suboptimal protocol of controlled ovarian stimulation (COS). This, by creating an adverse intraovarian hormonal environment will often disrupt normal egg development and lead to a higher incidence of egg aneuploidy than otherwise might have occurred. Older women, women with diminished ovarian reserve (DOR) and those with polycystic ovarian syndrome are especially vulnerable in this regard.
During the normal, ovulation cycle, ovarian hormonal changes are regulated to avoid irregularities in production and interaction that could adversely influence follicle development and egg quality. As an example, small amounts of androgens (male hormones such as testosterone), that are produced by the ovarian stroma (tissue surrounding ovarian follicles) during the pre-ovulatory phase of the cycle enhance late follicle development, estrogen production by the granulosa cells (that line the inner walls of follicles), and egg maturation. However, over-production of testosterone can adversely influence the same processes. It follows that COS protocols should be individualized and geared toward optimizing follicle growth and development time while avoiding excessive ovarian androgen (testosterone) production and that the hCG “trigger shot” should be carefully timed.
In summary it is important to understand the influence species, age of the woman as well as the effect of the protocol used for ovarian stimulation, on the chromosomal integrity of the egg (“competency) on, fertilization potential, blastocyst generation, and thus on IVF outcome. With the exception of, the hormonal ovarian environment created by the protocol used for ovarian stimulation, all other factors are inherent and unavoidable. This is why selection of the protocol used for ovarian stimulation is by far the most important decision that the RE has to make when it comes to trying to influence IVF outcome. This becomes even more relevant when dealing with older women, those with DOR and women with polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) who are the most vulnerable in this regard. .
I strongly recommend that you visit http://www.DrGeoffreySherIVF.com. Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.
•The IVF Journey: The importance of “Planning the Trip” Before Taking the Ride”
•Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
•IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation(COS)
•The Fundamental Requirements For Achieving Optimal IVF Success
•Use of GnRH Antagonists (Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron) in IVF-Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
•Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
•Preventing Severe Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome (OHSS) with “Prolonged Coasting”
•Understanding Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS) and the Need to Customize Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
•“Triggering” Egg Maturation in IVF: Comparing urine-derived hCG, Recombinant DNA-hCG and GnRH-agonist:
•The “Lupron Trigger” to Prevent Severe OHSS: What are the Pro’s and Con’s?
Please call or email Julie Dahan, my patient concierge. She will guide you on how to set up an in-person or Skype consultation with me. You can reach Julie at on her cell phone or via email at any time:
Julie Dahan
•Email: Julied@sherivf.com
•Phone: 702-533-2691
?800-780-7437
Geoff Sher
I also suggest that you access the 4th edition of my book ,”In Vitro Fertilization, the ART of Making Babies”. It is available as a down-load through http://www.Amazon.com or from most bookstores and public libraries.
Dr Sher,
I’m 34 yo, normal AFC and AMH with two chemical pregnancies after two FETs. I have one frozen BA embryo left that is untested. We are planning intralipids and anticoagulation for next FET. Would you recommend doing another FET or doing another IVF cycle first and doing PGS on all the embryos?
Thank you.
Hi Rachel,
What I suggest is that before the IL/steroid therapy (and to be effective, in my opinion both are needed), there needs to be a medical justification for such treatment (NK cell activation). There is no point in a shotgun approach. Proper treatment in my opinion is predicated upon a diagnostic justification.
Geoff Sher
Hi Dr. Sher,
I have had two failed IVF cycles both yielding highly fragmented embryos. It was done mainly to overcome male factors. Karyotype, microdeletion, DNA fragmentation tests came back fine for partner. 100% fertilization with ICSI both times. I am 33 years old, BMI 23. Hypothyroidism managed well with meds for 10 years. A PPD skin test showed a “latent” TB infection in 2014 which put me on a year of Isoniazid. Usual 33 day menstrual cycles lasting no more than 3 days. I will summarize the protocols and their results below followed by questions:
Cycle1: Birth Control Pills for 2 weeks. Antagonist for 10 days, with Ganirelix starting on day3 of stimulation until trigger. Lupron trigger due to high E2(4000) and P4(2.8) and OHSS risk. Several follicles (12-13) seen growing during monitoring, but only 8 retrieved, 6 mature, all 6 fertilized. Largest follicles ~20mm (2 follicles), 15-18mm(7 follicles) range at trigger. By day 3 all embryos were fragmented. Nothing to transfer. Was on 375IU GonalF and 75IU Menopur on all days.
2. Cycle2: Birth Control Pills for 2 weeks. Agonist with Lupron 10 IU for a week, then decrease to 5 IU. Withdrawal bleed. Then stimulate for 10 days, with 375IU GonalF and 75IU Menopur. Largest follicle 21mm, 8 were 15-18 range, and several were in 13-15 range at trigger. 19 eggs retrieved, 11 mature, all 11 fertilized. Again by day3, fragmented embryos. 2 were transferred on day3. No pregnancy. 2 blastocysts were frozen on day6. Ovidrel Trigger. These blastocysts were obtained from the fragmented day 3 embryos.
My questions are the following:
1. Are the doses of the stimulants too high, given my AMH (4.6), Day3 FSH (6), Day3 LH(5), BMI etc.
2. Would you change the ratio of gonal:menopur in order to improve embryo quality?
2. Could the poor quality of embryos be caused by incorrect timing of trigger?
3. Is fragmentation in my case indicative of poor quality eggs, despite normal AMH and FSH values?
4. How can egg quality be improved?
5. Female Karyotype to be tested this week, do you expect this to be abnormal?
6. Not heavy periods indicative of anything? Endometriosis etc? Could that affect egg quality
7. Your thoughts on what could have gone wrong in both cycles and how would you approach the next cycle.
Regards,
Rachel
In my opinion, the reason for poor embryo quality has more to do with the protocols used for ovarian stimulation than is either the male factor or any inherent egg issue….see below. Also, when it comes to hypothyroidism and IVF outcome, please consider the following:
Between 2% and 5% of women of the childbearing age have reduced thyroid hormone activity (hypothyroidism). Women with hypothyroidism often manifest with reproductive failure i.e. infertility, unexplained (often repeated) IVF failure, or recurrent pregnancy loss (RPL). The condition is 5-10 times more common in women than in men. In most cases hypothyroidism is caused by damage to the thyroid gland resulting from of thyroid autoimmunity (Hashimoto’s disease) caused by damage done to the thyroid gland by antithyroglobulin and antimicrosomal auto-antibodies.
The increased prevalence of hypothyroidism and thyroid autoimmunity (TAI) in women is likely the result of a combination of genetic factors, estrogen-related effects and chromosome X abnormalities. This having been said, there is significantly increased incidence of thyroid antibodies in non-pregnant women with a history of infertility and recurrent pregnancy loss and thyroid antibodies can be present asymptomatically in women without them manifesting with overt clinical or endocrinologic evidence of thyroid disease. In addition, these antibodies may persist in women who have suffered from hyper- or hypothyroidism even after normalization of their thyroid function by appropriate pharmacological treatment. The manifestations of reproductive dysfunction thus seem to be linked more to the presence of thyroid autoimmunity (TAI) than to clinical existence of hypothyroidism and treatment of the latter does not routinely result in a subsequent improvement in reproductive performance.
It follows, that if antithyroid autoantibodies are associated with reproductive dysfunction they may serve as useful markers for predicting poor outcome in patients undergoing assisted reproductive technologies.
Some years back, I reported on the fact that 47% of women who harbor thyroid autoantibodies, regardless of the absence or presence of clinical hypothyroidism, have activated uterine natural killer cells (NKa) cells and cytotoxic lymphocytes (CTL) and that such women often present with reproductive dysfunction. We demonstrated that appropriate immunotherapy with IVIG or intralipid (IL) and steroids, subsequently often results in a significant improvement in reproductive performance in such cases.
The fact that almost 50% of women who harbor antithyroid antibodies do not have activated CTL/NK cells suggests that it is NOT the antithyroid antibodies themselves that cause reproductive dysfunction. The activation of CTL and NK cells that occurs in half of the cases with TAI is probably an epiphenomenon with the associated reproductive dysfunction being due to CTL/NK cell activation that damages the early “root system” (trophoblast) of the implanting embryo. We have shown that treatment of those women who have thyroid antibodies + NKa/CTL using IL/steroids, improves subsequent reproductive performance while women with thyroid antibodies who do not harbor NKa/CTL do not require or benefit from such treatment.
Now to your specific questions:
1. Are the doses of the stimulants too high, given my AMH (4.6), Day3 FSH (6), Day3 LH(5), BMI etc.
A: The entire protocol needs review. Specifically the impact of a “Lupron trigger” on egg/embryo quality and competency….see below.
2. Would you change the ratio of gonal:menopur in order to improve embryo quality?
A: Probably so!
2. Could the poor quality of embryos be caused by incorrect timing of trigger?
A: That too could be a factor
3. Is fragmentation in my case indicative of poor quality eggs, despite normal AMH and FSH values?
A: Not in my opinion!
4. How can egg quality be improved?
A: In my opinion by reviewing and revising the stimulation protocol.
5. Female Karyotype to be tested this week, do you expect this to be abnormal?
A: Not necessarily
6. Not heavy periods indicative of anything? Endometriosis etc? Could that affect egg quality
A: I doubt that this is impacting egg/embryo quality.
7. Your thoughts on what could have gone wrong in both cycles and how would you approach the next cycle.
A: See below.
I strongly recommend that you visit http://www.DrGeoffreySherIVF.com. Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.
•The IVF Journey: The importance of “Planning the Trip” Before Taking the Ride”
•Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
•IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation(COS)
•The Fundamental Requirements For Achieving Optimal IVF Success
•Use of GnRH Antagonists (Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron) in IVF-Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
•Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
•Frozen Embryo Transfer (FET): A Rational Approach to Hormonal Preparation and How new Methodology is Impacting IVF.
•Preimplantation Genetic Testing (PGS) in IVF: It should be Used Selectively and NOT be Routine.
•IVF: Selecting the Best Quality Embryos to Transfer
•Preimplantation Genetic Sampling (PGS) Using: Next Generation Gene Sequencing (NGS): Method of Choice.
•PGS in IVF: Are Some Chromosomally abnormal Embryos Capable of Resulting in Normal Babies and Being Wrongly Discarded?
•PGS and Assessment of Egg/Embryo “competency”: How Method, Timing and Methodology Could Affect Reliability
•IVF Failure and Implantation Dysfunction:
•The Role of Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID):PART 1-Background
•Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID):PART 2- Making a Diagnosis
•Immunologic Dysfunction (IID) & Infertility (IID):PART 3-Treatment
•Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction: Importance of Meticulous Evaluation and Strategic Management:(Case Report
•Intralipid and IVIG therapy: Understanding the Basis for its use in the Treatment of Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID)
•Intralipid (IL) Administration in IVF: It’s Composition; How it Works; Administration; Side-effects; Reactions and Precautions
•Natural Killer Cell Activation (NKa) and Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction in IVF: The Controversy!
•Treating Out-of-State and Out-of-Country Patients at Sher-IVF in Las Vegas
•Should IVF Treatment Cycles be provided uninterrupted or be Conducted in 7-12 Pre-scheduled “Batches” per Year
•A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF
•How Many Embryos should be transferred: A Critical Decision in IVF.
•Endometriosis and Infertily
•Endometriosis and Immunologic Implantation Dysfunction (IID) and IVF
•Endometriosis and Infertility: Why IVF Rather than IUI or Surgery Should be the Treatment of Choice.
•Endometriosis and Infertility: The Influence of Age and Severity on Treatment Options
•Treating Ovarian Endometriomas with Sclerotherapy.
Please call or email Julie Dahan, my patient concierge. She will guide you on how to set up an in-person or Skype consultation with me. You can reach Julie at on her cell phone or via email at any time:
Julie Dahan
•Email: Julied@sherivf.com
•Phone: 702-533-2691
?800-780-7437
Geoff Sher
I also suggest that you access the 4th edition of my book ,”In Vitro Fertilization, the ART of Making Babies”. It is available as a down-load through http://www.Amazon.com or from most bookstores and public libraries.
What are the possibilities if you take clomid early in you menstrual cycle then take pregnyl on days 9-12 instead on just once and dtd after each shot? Thanks for your help on that matter. I’d also like to know if you take clomid early in your cycle but dont go back for scans/bloodwork, when is the best time to take the pregnyl shot (just 1) and what could happen if you take it too early/late?
Gonadotropins can be combined with clomiphene in some cases but frankly, starting on day 9 is a little late. Usually the clomiphene starts on day 2-3 and the gonadotropin on day 5 or 6. Frankly, I do not prescribe clomiphene in this way as I see no real advantage.
If given empirically (and again I do not agree with this) the hCG trigger could be 10 days after starting the clomiphene.
Geoff Sher