Ask Our Doctors – Archive
Our Medical Directors are outstanding physicians that you will find to be very personable and compassionate, who take care to ensure that you have the most cutting-edge fertility treatments at your disposal. This is your outlet to ask your questions to the doctors.
Dr Sher, please, I need to understand my day 3 levels after a failed ivf cycle. I had Ovidrel booster during the 2ww and wondering if it’s the Ovidrel that has caused my day 3 FSH to be 5.9, LH is 1.1 and estradiol is 131 pg/ml! Are these normal levels coming off an IVF cycle or should all the meds be out of my system by now to reveal the correct day 3 levels? Just curious as LH is very low and estrogen very high! I know Ovidrel increases estrogen as well as progesterone so wondering if it’s the effect of Ovidrel causing elevated estrogen.. I’m 40 and AMH is 0.95.
You need the estradiol to be below 70pg/ml to best interpret the FSH and LH accurately. This having been said, I do not think this has anything to do with a residual Ovidrel effect!
Good luck!
Geoff Sher
Hi Dr Sher,
I have to thank you for your encouraging advice. I reached out to you several months ago about some abnormal embryos I had. They were not mosaic but you said there might be a chance of pregnancy with two of them. So two weeks ago we implanted them and today 13days post ovulation my HCG was 252!! I was dumbfounded. I couldn’t believe they actually stuck let alone there is a possibility of twins. But now I live in utter fear that at any moment for the next 8 months I could miscarry. What miscarriage rates have you seen with abnormal embryos that resulted in a pregnancy. These were not even mosaic. Thank you giving me the courage to do this and all your research.
Congratulations Anne! Unfortunately, there is not enough data to provide statistics. All you can do is wait until the 8-12th week and do chorionic villus sampling (CVS). This will be definitive. My hope is that this will turn out to be a healthy pregnancy.Please keep me in the loop!
Geoff Sher
Hi Dr. Sher,
I am 34 years old and just had my egg retrieval on Monday. I am doing A co-IVF cycle so my female partner can carry my eggs. My AMH was considered to be very good according to my doctor and I responded well to the medication. I was on gonal-f 150 and 1 powder of menopur for a few days and then it was increased to 2 powders and 0.25 centrotide for 3 more days (in addition to the gonal-f). I was on the stimms for 8 days total and triggered on day 9 with 40 units of Lupron and 1000 kIU of HCG. My E2 was at 2607 the morning of the trigger. I was told that Lupron was added for fear of hyper stimulation. At retrieval, they retrieved 16 eggs and 15 were mature. We were told that only 4 of the 15 eggs fertilized. We used sperm donor from a reputable bank so I imagine the sperm was not the issue. Can you please advise why we had such a low fertilization rate? At 34 years old and after hearing that 15 eggs were mature, I’m naturally concerned and confused as to the low fertilization rate of 37.5%. Is there hope to achieve a better fertilization rate in the future or does it indicate poor quality eggs? Additionally, could the protocol be changed to increase quality/fertilization rates somehow? I was told all my levels and numbers looked very good. We are awaiting day 6 to see if the embryos progress, but feeling concerned and looking for any expertise.
I believe triggering with Lupron to be suboptimal.
Ideal egg development sets the scene for optimal egg maturation that occurs 36-42h prior to ovulation or egg retrieval. Without prior optimal egg development (ovogenesis), egg maturation will be dysfunctional and most eggs will be rendered “incompetent” and unable upon fertilization to propagate viable embryos. In IVF, optimal ovogenesis requires the selection and implementation of an individualized approach to controlled ovaria stimulation (COS). Thereupon, at the ideal time, maturational division of the egg’s chromosomes (i.e. meiosis) is “triggered” through the administration of hCG or an agonist such as Lupron, which induces an LH surge. The, dosage and timing of the “trigger shot” profoundly affects the efficiency of meiosis, the potential to yield “competent (euploid) mature (M2) eggs, and as such represents a rate limiting step in the IVF process .
“Triggering meiosis with Urine-derived hCG (Pregnyl/Profasi/Novarel) versus recombinant hCG (Ovidrel): Until quite recently, the standard method used to “trigger” egg maturation was through the administration of 10,000 units of hCGu. Subsequently,, a DNA recombinant form of hCGr (Ovidrel)was introduced and marketed in 250 mcg doses. But clinical experience strongly suggests that 250 mcg of Ovidrel is most likely not equivalent in biological potency to 10,000 units of hCG. It probably only has 50%-70%of the potency of a 10,000U dose of hCGu and as such might not be sufficient to fully promote meiosis, especially in cases where the woman has numerous follicles. For this reason, I firmly believe that when hCGr is selected as the “trigger shot” the dosage should best be doubled to 500 mcg at which dosage it will probably have an equivalent effect on promoting meiosis as would 10,000 units of hCGu. Failure to “trigger” with 10,000U hCGu or 500mcg hCGr, will in my opinion increase the likelihood of disorderly meiosis, “incompetent (aneuploid) eggs” and the risk of follicles not yielding eggs at egg retrieval (“empty follicles”). Having said this, it is my personal opinion that it is unnecessary to supplant hCGu with hCGr since the latter is considerably more expensive and is probably no more biopotent than the latter.
Some clinicians, when faced with a risk of OHSS developing will deliberately elect to reduce the dosage of hCG administered as a trigger in the hope that by doing so the risk of critical OHSS developing will be lowered. It is my opinion, that such an approach is not optimal because a low dose of hCG (e.g., 5000 units, hCGu or 25omcg hCGr) is likely inadequate to optimize the efficiency of meiosis particularly when it comes to cases such as this where there are numerous follicles. It has been suggested that the preferential use of an “agonist (Lupron) trigger” in women at risk of developing severe ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome could potentially reduce the risk of the condition becoming critical and thereby placing the woman at risk of developing life-endangering complications. It is with this in mind that many RE’s prefer to trigger meiosis by way of an “agonist (Lupron) trigger rather than through the use of hCG. The agonist promptly causes the woman’s pituitary gland to expunge a large amount of LH over a short period of time and it is this LH “surge” that triggers meiosis. The problem with using this approach, in my opinion, is that it is hard to predict how much LH will be released in by the pituitary gland. For this reason, I personally prefer to use hCGu for the trigger, even in cases of ovarian hyperstimulation hyperstimulated, with one important proviso…that being that is she underwent “prolonged coasting” in order to reduce the risk of critical OHSS, prior to the 10,000 unit hCGu “ trigger”.
The timing of the “trigger shot “to initiate meiosis: This should coincide with the majority of ovarian follicles being >15 mm in mean diameter with several follicles having reached 18-22 mm. Follicles of larger than 22 mm will usually harbor overdeveloped eggs which in turn will usually fail to produce good quality eggs. Conversely, follicles less than 15 mm will usually harbor underdeveloped eggs that are more likely to be aneuploid and incompetent following the “trigger”.
Here is the protocol I advise for women, <40Y who have adequate ovarian reserve.
My advice is to use a long pituitary down regulation protocol starting on a BCP, and overlapping it with Lupron 10U daily for three (3) days and then stopping the BCP but continuing on Lupron 10u daily (in my opinion 20U daily is too much) and await a period (which should ensue within 5-7 days of stopping the BCP). At that point an US examination is done along with a baseline measurement of blood estradiol to exclude a functional ovarian cyst and simultaneously, the Lupron dosage is reduced to 5U daily to be continued until the hCG (10,000u) trigger. An FSH-dominant gonadotropin such as Follistim, Puregon or Gonal-f daily is started with the period for 2 days and then the gonadotropin dosage is reduced and a small amount of menotropin (Menopur---no more than 75U daily) is added. This is continued until US and blood estradiol levels indicate that the hCG trigger be given, whereupon an ER is done 36h later. I personally would advise against using Lupron in “flare protocol” arrangement (where the Lupron commences with the onset of gonadotropin administration.
I strongly recommend that you visit https://www.drgeoffreysherivf.com. Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.
• The IVF Journey: The importance of “Planning the Trip” Before Taking the Ride”
• Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
• IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS)
• The Fundamental Requirements For Achieving Optimal IVF Success
• Use of GnRH Antagonists (Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron) in IVF-Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
• Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
• Treating Out-of-State and Out-of-Country Patients at Sher-IVF in Las Vegas
• Should IVF Treatment Cycles be provided uninterrupted or be Conducted in 7-12 Pre-scheduled “Batches” per Year
• A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF
• “Triggering” Egg Maturation in IVF: Comparing urine-derived hCG, Recombinant DNA-hCG and GnRH-agonist:
If you are interested in seeking my advice or services, I urge you to contact my concierge, Julie Dahan ASAP to set up a Skype or an in-person consultation with me. You can also contact Julie by phone or via email at 702-533-2691/ Julied@sherivf.com You can also apply online at http://www.SherIVF.com .
*FYI
The 4th edition of my newest book ,”In Vitro Fertilization, the ART of Making Babies” is available as a down-load through http://www.Amazon.com or from most bookstores and public libraries.
Geoffrey Sher MD
Hello, dr Sher!
I would like to introduce you to my sisters’ experiense, who has been conceived unsuccessfully for 7 years.
After 6 ivf attempts my sister/40 years old now/ has 4 positive bchg tests with value between 20 and 70 and one naturally pregnancy with bchg = 60. Last two attempts were with PGD tested blastocysts – grade 5AB and again biochemical pregnancy.
The doctors find out that the folopian tubes are passable, the uterine cavity is clear and the uterus is reversed. Endometrium is more than 12mm.
The following immunological tests were performed:
NK cells CO3-56+ – 13.93 ref (2-13)
NK cells activity – 11.2 ref (N<10%)
Available embryotoxins
PAI 4G/4G homozygous
MTHFR (C667T) heterozygous
Male kariotype – 46 ??
Female kariotype – 46 XX
AMH – 4.27
FT4 – 1.190 ref 0.93-1.7
TSH – 0.794 ref 0.27-4.2
The threatment is Intralipid before and after positive bchg and Octagam immunoglobulin 3-4days before transfer, prednisolon, aspirin, clexane.
What is your opinion?
Thanks in advance
Hi Dr Sher,
I’m 33yo, my FSH is 7.16, LH 4.54, AMH 4.55. I did IVF and was given 150 IU gonal f, 75 IU luveris, ovidrel 250mcg.
24 eggs were retrieved, embryologist said they all looked top quality, ICSI was used and yet and I only ended up w/2 embryos which didn’t implant. Clinic didn’t communicate to me what could have gone wrong despite me asking. I also had OHHS symptoms and yet still had a fresh transfer done.
In your opinion was I wrongly or overly stimulated ? Thinking of changing clinics next time around
Concern and even fear t of OHSS often leads the treating RE to take measures aimed at reducing the risk of this life-endangering condition. One such measures is to “trigger” egg maturation prematurely in the hope of arresting further follicular growth and the other, is to initiate the “trigger” with a reduced dosage of hCG (i.ed. 5,000U rather than the usual 10,000U of of Pregnyl/Profasi/Novarel, to use or 250mcg rather than 500mcg of Ovidrel or to supplant the hCG “trigger” with a Lupron “trigger” which causes a prompt LH surge from the woman’s pituitary gland to take place. While such measures do indeed reduce the risk of OHSS to the mother, this often comes at the expense of egg quantity and “competency”. Fewer than the anticipated number of eggs are harvested and those that are retrieved are far more likely to be “immature” and chromosomally abnormal (aneuploid”), or “immature” , thereby significantly compromising IVF outcome.
Against this background, It is my considered opinion that when it comes to performing IVF in women with PCOS, the most important consideration must be the selection and proper implementation of an individualized or customized ovarian stimulation protocol. Thereupon, rather than prematurely initiating the “trigger” to arrest further follicle growth, administering a reduced dosage of hCG or “triggering with a GnRH agonist (e.g. Lupron/Buserelin) that can compromise egg “competency”….. use of one of the following techniques will often markedly reduce the risk of OHSS while at the same time protecting egg quality:
•1. PROLONGED COASTING…my preferred approach: My preferred approach is to use a long pituitary down-regulation protocol coming off the BCP which during the last 3 days is overlapped with the agonist, Lupron/Buserelin/Superfact. The BCP is intended to lower LH and thereby reduce stromal activation (hyperthecosis) in the hope of controlling LH-induced ovarian androgen (predominantly, testosterone) production and release. I then stimulate my PCOS patients using a low dosage of recombinant FSH-(FSHr) such as Follistim/Gonal-F/Puregon. On the 3rd day of such stimulation a smidgeon of LH/hCG (Luveris/Menopur) is added. Thereupon, starting on day 7 of ovarian stimulation, I perform serial blood estradiol (E2) and ultrasound follicle assessments, watching for the number and size of the follicles and the blood estradiol concentration [E2]. I keep stimulating (regardless of the [E2] until 50% of all follicles reach 14mm. At this point, provided the [E2] reaches at least >2,500pg/ml, I stop the agonist as well as gonadotropin stimulation and track the blood E2 concentration daily. The [E2] will almost invariably increase for a few days. I closely monitor the [E2] as it rises, plateaus and then begins to decline. As soon as the [E2] drops below 2500pg/ml (and not before then), I administer a “trigger” shot of 10,000U Profasi/ Novarel/Pregnyl or 500mcg Ovidrel/Ovitrel. This is followed by an egg retrieval, performed 36 hours later. Fertilization is accomplished using intracytoplasmic sperm injection (ICSI) because “coasted” eggs usually have little or no cumulus oophoris enveloping them and eggs without a cumulus will not readily fertilize naturally. Moreover, they also tend to have a “hardened” envelopment (zona pellucida), making spontaneous fertilization problematic in many cases. All fertilized eggs are cultured to the blastocyst stage (up to day 5- 6 days) and thereupon are either vitrified and preserved for subsequent transfer in later hormone replacement cycles or (up to 2) blastocysts are transferred to the uterus, transvaginally under transabdominal ultrasound guidance. The success of this approach depends on precise timing of the initiation and conclusion of “prolonged coasting”. If started too early, follicle growth will arrest and the cycle will be lost. If commenced too late, too many follicles will be post-mature/cystic (>22mm) and as such will usually harbor abnormal or dysmature eggs. Use of “Coasting” almost always prevents the development of severe OHSS, optimizes egg/embryo quality and avoids unnecessary cycle cancellation. If correctly implemented, the worst you will encounter is moderate OHSS and this too is relatively uncommon.
•2. MULTIPLE FOLLICLE ASPIRATION: In some cases, in spite of best effort, you inadvertently find mean follicle size to exceed 16mm, thereby leaving too little time to implement “coasting”. On other occasions, “coasting” fails to effectively lower the [E2} below 2,500pg/ml within 3 days. In such case the number of developing follicles can effectively and drastically reduced (culled) through selective transvaginal aspiration prior to initiating the “trigger” with 10,000U hCG. This will almost invariably be accompanied by a rapid and significant drop in the plasma estradiol concentration along with a drastic reduction in the risk of OHSS occurring without significantly compromising egg/embryo quality. Upon completing surgical follicular reduction, the surviving follicles can be allowed to continue their full development, at which point the hCG “trigger” can be implemented. The drawback associated with this approach is that it unfortunately interjects an additional surgical intervention into an already complex and stressful situation.
•3. EMBRYO FREEZING AND DEFERMENT OF EMBRYO TRANSFEDR (ET): OHSS is always a self-limiting condition. In the absence of continued exposure to hCG, symptoms and signs as well as the risk of severe complications will ultimately abate. Thus, in the absence of pregnancy, all symptoms, signs and risks associated with OHSS will disappear within about 10-14 days of the hCG trigger. Conversely, since early pregnancy is always accompanied by a rapid and progressive rise in hCG , the severity of OHSS will increase until about the 9th or tenth gestational week whereupon a transition from ovarian to placental hormonal dominance occurs, the severity of OHSS rapidly diminishes and the patient will be out of risk. Accordingly, in cases where in spite of best effort to prevent OHSS, the woman develops symptoms and signs of progressive overstimulation prior to planned ET, all the blastocysts should be vitrified and cryostored for FET in a subsequent hormone replacement cycle. In this way women with OHSS can be spared the risk of the condition spiraling out of control.
•The IVF Journey: The importance of “Planning the Trip” Before Taking the Ride”
•Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
•IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation(COS)
•The Fundamental Requirements For Achieving Optimal IVF Success
•Use of GnRH Antagonists (Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron) in IVF-Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
•Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
•Egg Maturation in IVF: How Egg “Immaturity”, “Post-maturity” and “Dysmaturity” Influence IVF Outcome:
•Commonly Asked Question in IVF: “Why Did so Few of my Eggs Fertilize and, so Many Fail to Reach Blastocyst?”
•Human Growth Hormone Administration in IVF: Does it Enhances Egg/Embryo Quality and Outcome?
•The BCP: Does Launching a Cycle of Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS). Coming off the BCP Compromise Response?
•Taking A Fresh Look at Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome (OHSS), its Presentation, Prevention and Management
•Preventing Severe Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome (OHSS) with “Prolonged Coasting”
•Understanding Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS) and the Need to Customize Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
•“Triggering” Egg Maturation in IVF: Comparing urine-derived hCG, Recombinant DNA-hCG and GnRH-agonist:
•The “Lupron Trigger” to Prevent Severe OHSS: What are the Pro’s and Con’s?
•My Retirement in the Year Ahead: A letter of Thanks From me to You!
If you are interested in seeking my advice or services, I urge you to contact my concierge, Julie Dahan ASAP to set up a Skype or an in-person consultation with me. You can also contact Julie by phone or via email at 702-533-2691/ Julied@sherivf.com You can also apply online at http://www.SherIVF.com .
*FYI
The 4th edition of my newest book ,”In Vitro Fertilization, the ART of Making Babies” is available as a down-load through http://www.Amazon.com or from most bookstores and public libraries.
Geoffrey Sher MD