Ask Our Doctors – Archive
Our Medical Directors are outstanding physicians that you will find to be very personable and compassionate, who take care to ensure that you have the most cutting-edge fertility treatments at your disposal. This is your outlet to ask your questions to the doctors.
Hi Dr Sher. I have read your 2008 journal article on the agonist antagonist conversion protocol. It seems to make perfect sense (of those sections I could understand lol). I am wondering, why hasnt it become the mainstream protocol in IVF some 10 years later? Why are REs still using the same long, short, flare protocols when you have produced evidence that this is the protocol that coaxes out the good quality eggs???
Your guess is as good as mine..Darleene!
Geoff Sher
Dr Sher, if aneuploid embryos can still implant and at times, self correct. Why is PGD/PGS still performed? I am DOR and I don’t get many to test, do you PGD/PGS your DOR patients?
Darleene,
About a decade ago, I, along with my associate, Levent Keskintepe PhD were the first to introduce full chromosome Preimplantation Genetic Sampling/Screening (PGS) into the IVF clinical realm to try and identify euploid embryos whose cells contained the required 46 chromosomes (23 pairs) necessary to render them potentially “competent” to propagate viable pregnancies. Aneuploid embryos (those that have more or less than a total of 46 chromosomes) are by and large considered to be “incompetent”, far less likely to propagate a viable pregnancy and thus largely unworthy of being transferred to the uterus.
Initially the primary method used for PGS was, comparative genomic hybridization (CGH). The methodology was not without certain problems. A few years ago, new and improved technology known as next generation gene sequencing (NGS) emerged. This has since all but replaced other methodologies. Gene sequencing determines the precise order of nucleotides within a DNA molecule. It includes any method or technology that is used to determine the order of the four bases—adenine, guanine, cytosine, and thymine—in a strand of DNA.
The widely held belief is that the ideal time to biopsy embryos for PGS is when they reach the most advanced stage of preimplantation development (the blastocyst stage) by 5-6 days post-fertilization. At this point several cells are microsurgically removed from the embryo’s outer cellular layer (trophectoderm-TE), processed and subjected to PGS analysis. The blastocysts are ultra-rapidly frozen (vitrified) and held for future dispensation in a subsequent frozen embryo transfer (FET) cycle, once test results are known.
Access to several cells through TE biopsy provides more DNA for reliable analysis that can be attained through the testing of a single cell removed from a day-2-3 cleaved embryo. It is this plus the belief that the hypercellular blastocyst is far less likely to be damaged through such microsurgical intervention than would be the case with a 4-10 cell, day-3 cleaved embryo that has led to the preferred timing for biopsy to be on day 5-6 blastocysts..
When PGS testing was first introduced, initial results were most-encouraging. Embryo implantation rates of >50% and birth rates of 50-60% when up to two euploid blastocysts were transferred, were being reported. In addition, the reported incidence of miscarriages and chromosomal birth defects was likewise greatly reduced. In fact, we were so encouraged that most of us predicted that a time would come where full embryo karyotyping through PGS would become a routine part of IVF. But alas…..we were soon to be disappointed when following the widespread introduction of PGS testing success rates started dropping. This was especially the case when PGS was performed on embryos derived from the eggs of older women and women with severely diminished ovarian reserve (DOR). With further investigation it began to dawn upon us that:
a)Chromosomal numerical integrity, while being the most important determinant of embryo “competency” was likely not the only factor that impacted embryo “competency”. Indeed advancing age was revealed to increase the incidence of embryo aneuploidy, independent of embryo karyotype and this is probably linked to non-chromosomal, genetic and metabolomic factors that might also be age-related.
b)Independent of embryo competency, there are many variables, that can and also do determine IVF outcome and these are often outside the control of the embryology/genetic laboratory. They include selection and implementation of individualized protocols for controlled ovarian stimulation (COS), endometrial factors that determine embryo implantation (e.g. anatomical an immunologic implantation dysfunction), technical skill of the physician performing embryo transfer etc.
c)Not all PGS-aneuploid embryos are “incompetent”. Some are mosaic (see elsewhere) and these are often capable of “autocorrecting” upon being transferred to the uterus, and propagating healthy babies.
Example A: Under optimal conditions embryo “competency” is determined by age and the protocol used for COS. In women <36Y of age roughly 1:2 blastocysts will likely be euploid “competent” and were such an embryo be gently and expertly transferred to a “receptive” uterine environment, the chance of a viable pregnancy should about 55-60%. This means that when ET is performed in such ideal IVF candidates, the chance of it resulting in a live birth should be about 27%-30% per embryo.
Example B: Conversely, when it comes to a woman in her mid-forties, the chance of an embryo being “competent” is probably < 1:8-10. And, the age-adjusted chance of such a Euploid embryo propagating a live birth is (for reasons cited above) theoretically well below 60% (perhaps around 40%-45%). This extrapolates to a baby rate of no more than 4%-5% per blastocyst transferred. Using the above examples: In Example A: Given that about 50% of the eggs (and thus resulting embryos) of young women are euploid and competent, the transfer up to 2 non-PGS tested blastocysts would likely yield the same results as would the transfer of a single PGS-tested euploid blastocyst. It follows that a patient/couple who are capable and willing to engage a twin pregnancy (which would occur in roughly 25% of such cases), might get as good a result by simply transferring two (2) untested blastocysts and in the process avoid the additional cost of PGS. In Example B: Conversely, the chance of a viable pregnancy in a woman in her mid-40’s would likely be 8-10 times greater when a “competent”, PGS-euploid blastocyst is selectively transferred as compared to when a non-PGS tested blastocyst is transferred to the uterus (4% versus 40%). Albeit that PGS-testing of blastocysts derived from fertilization of an older woman’s eggs is less reliable than for younger counterparts, there would be a distinct benefit/advantage in pre-selecting euploid, “competent” blastocysts for transfer in such cases. Since older women often also have DOR and thus produce fewer eggs/embryos, such women should benefit inordinately from the selective “stockpiling” (banking) of PGS-biopsied blastocysts (vitrification) over several cycles of IVF for collective PGS testing and the subsequent selective transfer of only the most “competent” ones to the uterus with FET. In conclusion, it is my considered opinion that PGS-embryo selection only be considered in the following circumstances: 1.Women over the age of 39Y and those who, regardless of age have significant DOR, are running out of eggs and time, and need to “make hay while the sun shines”! 2.Unexplained IVF failure. 3.Certain cases of recurrent pregnancy loss (RPL). 4.Family gender balancing cases 5.Women who have alloimmune implantation dysfunction (IID) with activation of uterine natural killer cells (NKa)…see elsewhere. 6.Where karyotyping reveals one or other partner to have a balanced chromosomal translocation 7.Known or anticipated specific genetic abnormalities When selectively used PGS is an excellent tool to improve implantation potential and IVF outcome (see above). While PGS provides a new and unique method for selecting the ideal embryos to be transferred, it is not a panacea when it comes to identifying “competent embryos”. There are factors other than numerical chromosomal integrity (karyotype) that can and do influence embryo “competency”, profoundly. PGS embryo selection is in my opinion currently over-used. This is especially the case when it comes to younger women with normal ovarian reserve. Unless the dust is allowed to settle such that this remarkable technology is properly applied, it is my belief that it stands the risk of progressively falling into disrepute. I strongly recommend that you visit http://www.DrGeoffreySherIVF.com. Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.
•The IVF Journey: The importance of “Planning the Trip” Before Taking the Ride”
•Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
•IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation(COS)
•The Fundamental Requirements For Achieving Optimal IVF Success
•Use of GnRH Antagonists (Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron) in IVF-Ovarian Stimulation Protocols.
•Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
•s “Fresh” ET: How to Make the Decision
•Frozen Embryo Transfer (FET): A Rational Approach to Hormonal Preparation and How new Methodology is Impacting IVF.
•Staggered IVF
•Staggered IVF with PGS- Selection of “Competent” Embryos Greatly Enhances the Utility & Efficiency of IVF.
•IVF: Selecting the Best Quality Embryos to Transfer
•Preimplantation Genetic Sampling (PGS) Using: Next Generation Gene Sequencing (NGS): Method of Choice.
•PGS in IVF: Are Some Chromosomally abnormal Embryos Capable of Resulting in Normal Babies and Being Wrongly Discarded?
•PGS and Assessment of Egg/Embryo “competency”: How Method, Timing and Methodology Could Affect Reliability
•Treating Out-of-State and Out-of-Country Patients at Sher-IVF in Las Vegas
•Should IVF Treatment Cycles be provided uninterrupted or be Conducted in 7-12 Pre-scheduled “Batches” per Year
•A personalized, stepwise approach to IVF
If you are interested in seeking my advice or services, I urge you to contact my concierge, Julie Dahan ASAP to set up a Skype or an in-person consultation with me. You can also contact Julie by phone or via email at 702-533-2691/ Julied@sherivf.com You can also apply online at http://www.SherIVF.com .
*FYI
The 4th edition of my newest book ,”In Vitro Fertilization, the ART of Making Babies” is available as a down-load through http://www.Amazon.com or from most bookstores and public libraries.
Hi Dr. Sher.
Is testosterone priming is a good protocol for the women with low AMH and normal FSH? I have GDF9 mutation and always produce two eggs. Looking for the input
Thank you: Shah
In my opinion…absolutely not!
In my opinion, the protocol used for ovarian stimulation, against the backdrop of age, and ovarian reserve are the drivers of egg quality and egg quality is the most important factor affecting embryo “competency”.
Older women as well as those who (regardless of age) have diminished ovarian reserve (DOR) tend to produce fewer and less “competent” eggs, the main reason for reduced IVF success in such cases. The compromised outcome is largely due to the fact that such women tend to have increased LH biological activity which often results in excessive LH-induced ovarian testosterone production which in turn can have a deleterious effect on egg/embryo “competency”.
Certain ovarian stimulation regimes either promote excessive LH production (e.g. short agonist/Lupron- “flare” protocols, clomiphene and Letrozole), augment LH/hCG delivered through additional administration (e.g. high dosage menotropins such as Menopur), or fail to protect against body’s own/self-produced LH (e.g. late antagonist protocols where drugs such as Ganirelix/Cetrotide/Orgalutron that are first administered 6-7 days after ovarian stimulation has commenced).
I try to avoid using such protocols/regimes (especially) in older women and those with DOR, favoring instead the use of a modified, long pituitary down-regulation protocol (the agonist/antagonist conversion protocol-A/ACP) augmented by adding supplementary human growth hormone (HGH). I further recommend Staggered IVF with embryo banking of PGS (next generation gene sequencing/NGS)-normal blastocysts in such cases. This type of approach will in my opinion, optimize the chance of a viable pregnancy per embryo transfer procedure and provide an opportunity to capitalize on whatever residual ovarian reserve and egg quality still exists, allowing the chance to “make hay while the sun still shines”.
I strongly recommend that you visit http://www.DrGeoffreySherIVF.com. Then go to my Blog and access the “search bar”. Type in the titles of any/all of the articles listed below, one by one. “Click” and you will immediately be taken to those you select. Please also take the time to post any questions or comments with the full expectation that I will (as always) respond promptly.
•Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) for IVF: Selecting the ideal protocol
•IVF: Factors Affecting Egg/Embryo “competency” during Controlled Ovarian Stimulation(COS)
•The Fundamental Requirements For Achieving Optimal IVF Success
•Ovarian Stimulation for IVF using GnRH Antagonists: Comparing the Agonist/Antagonist Conversion Protocol.(A/ACP) With the“Conventional” Antagonist Aproach
•Anti Mullerian Hormone (AMH) Measurement to Assess Ovarian Reserve and Design the Optimal Protocol for Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in IVF.
•The “Biological Clock” and how it should Influence the Selection and Design of Ovarian Stimulation Protocols for IVF.
•Diagnosing and Treating Infertility due to Diminished Ovarian Reserve (DOR)
•Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS) in Older women and Women who have Diminished Ovarian Reserve (DOR): A Rational Basis for Selecting a Stimulation Protocol
•Human Growth Hormone Administration in IVF: Does it Enhances Egg/Embryo Quality and Outcome?
•The BCP: Does Launching a Cycle of Controlled Ovarian Stimulation (COS). Coming off the BCP Compromise Response?
•Staggered IVF: An Excellent Option When. Advancing Age and Diminished Ovarian Reserve (DOR) Reduces IVF Success Rate
•Embryo Banking/Stockpiling: Slows the “Biological Clock” and offers a Selective Alternative to IVF-Egg Donation.
•Preimplantation Genetic Testing (PGS) in IVF: It Should be Used Selectively and NOT be Routine.
•Preimplantation Genetic Sampling (PGS) Using: Next Generation Gene Sequencing (NGS): Method of Choice.
•PGS in IVF: Are Some Chromosomally abnormal Embryos Capable of Resulting in Normal Babies and Being Wrongly Discarded?
•PGS and Assessment of Egg/Embryo “competency”: How Method, Timing and Methodology Could Affect Reliability
•Implications of “Empty Follicle Syndrome and “Premature Luteinization”
•Premature Luteinization (“the premature LH surge): Why it happens and how it can be prevented.
If you are interested in seeking my advice or services, I urge you to contact my concierge, Julie Dahan ASAP to set up a Skype or an in-person consultation with me. You can also contact Julie by phone or via email at 702-533-2691/ Julied@sherivf.com You can also apply online at http://www.SherIVF.com .
*FYI
The 4th edition of my book,”In Vitro Fertilization, the ART of Making Babies” is now available as a down-load through http://www.Amazon.com or from most bookstores and public libraries.
Geoffrey Sher MD
Hi Dr. Sher,
I am 30 and about to have my first embryo transfer on the 27th. We did a freeze all cycle first so we could do PGS testing. I had 35 mature eggs retrieved and 28 were fertilized with ICSI. 21 made it to day 5 blastocyst. We opted to biopsy and PGS 8 and of that 4 came back as euploid. Out of all of the 21, only 2 embryos were graded AA and one of the AA’s was a monosomy. The majority of the rest are AB or AC quality. Does the embryo grading matter as much when PGS is done? Have you ever seen success with a 3AC being trasnferred? We are doing one embryo a 4AA euploid but just curious about the rest of our embryos. What would you say our success rates are?
In my opinion, morphologic (microscopic) grading should not matter if it is a euploid expanded blastocyst.
Geoff Sher
Hi Dr,
I am 31 yr old,16 weeks pregnant(natuarally conceived)with twins(mono di). I have a 4 yr old son. I would like to know if I can do selective reduction to a singleton. Could you please suggest me some doctors who would do this.
Thanks a lot.
I do not think it wise to educe from 2 to one because if something goes wrong you are left with no baby! However, this is something you need to discuss with your primary care OB!
Geoff Sher